Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

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altius
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Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby altius » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:26 am

.
How did he get there gripping 16'7" on a 10.8 flex pole?
AND
Where is he going?


Image
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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby agapit » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:42 pm

Image

Jeff Hartwig at about the same section of the vault at 5.95m We could see that he is somewhat behind in the rotation compare to Bubka and his COG is not as high as Bubka’s at roughly the same pole angle. The reason, I believe, is his off the ground phase is not as efficient and energetic as Bubka's. Jeff in this jump has a pretty decent free takeoff but then he gets into the pocket, using tack and shoot technic and the result is somewhat less desirable.

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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby kcvault » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:58 pm

I don't know how to embed images on polevaulpower, but if you click on the link you will see that in the same section of the vault Hartwig is in a very good position, and he does not have the slight arch to his back that Bubka does. I can't really say who's inversion is better, they are both very good. Although almost more impressive for hartwig to invert like that since he is 205lbs.


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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby agapit » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:55 pm

kcvault wrote:I don't know how to embed images on polevaulpower, but if you click on the link you will see that in the same section of the vault Hartwig is in a very good position, and he does not have the slight arch to his back that Bubka does. I can't really say who's inversion is better, they are both very good. Although almost more impressive for hartwig to invert like that since he is 205lbs.


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Not quite the same pole state. Bubka's pole is still bent and Jeff's is straight in the picure you present. So to compare apples & apples, my frame perhaps more accurate. By the time Bubka's pole is straight he be releasing the pole :)

And the position is secondary. The vertical speed of COG is primary objective, I would think.
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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby ADTF Academy » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:01 am

I would say both poles are still bent.... If Hartwig was straight his right hand would be significantly pulled left cause it is still straight and looks more right side of his body I would say it is still bent to how much would depend on more factors than appears. Question is at what degree of bent are each athlete at in that moment.

The difference to me is the position of the left hand. Bubka up near his ear his path of swing kept his body pit side of the pole cord. Something IMO he did so so well similar to stiff pole vaulters (plugging my other post :D). Most vaulters end up doing what Hartwig demonstrates. Hartwig's bottom hand went deep to his left hip and than got caught at his rib cage. He can't get completely in alignment like Bubka did. You may say it was cause of a tuck and shoot. Well yes that was what the appearance is, but I can't tell you what he was trying to do. His takeoff was not a block out. He didn't open up the right shoulder to try to over bend the pole. None of the set up characteristics would say tuck and shoot. It happens cause of some other movement we can only guess about. Is he trying to row his hands? Is he impatient on his swing? Did he feel something wrong so he was making a correction? Only he can state what he was attempting to do on that jump not us.

The tuck was created by something which than caused his bottom hand to get buried. After that occurred the pole was facing a position that he couldn't get completely in line with it like sergey did. From the side I watch is the pole bend pointing pit side of the athletes hips or are the hips past the pole bend pit side. If you look for that you will start to see a buried bottom hand elbow is a bad thing, but how to fix it is a great question for each jumper.


The next movements show what happens when that occurs the hands spit out away from the body typically towards the left standard than back down the runway. Experts like Hartwig and other elites who these movements are seen can get the hands back under them and thus clear high heights like 5.95. Weaker athlete allow the hands to keep drifting and they flag out and lose rotation and never get back into any kind of alignment. My Opinion they are trying and think they need to be strong when reality is get into alignment of the pole and use the line of thrust not your muscles.

To say it was cause he was 205 pounds is an excuse..... Stories I heard (many from him) he could hold his own in the gymnastics room at 205 pounds. Look at when Paul Turek was on Ninja Warrior at what 210 pounds. An athlete is an athlete

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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby kcvault » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:18 pm

To say it was cause he was 205 pounds is an excuse..... Stories I heard (many from him) he could hold his own in the gymnastics room at 205 pounds. Look at when Paul Turek was on Ninja Warrior at what 210 pounds. An athlete is an athlete


I was just saying being able to invert like that at 205lbs is very impressive, shows how strong Jeff Hartwig is. Also Paul told me he was 195lbs but it may have been to make the 5m 190 he was jumping on seem more reasonable ;).

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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby vaultmd » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:13 pm

If I ever got in that position on that pole, my shorts definitely would not be white.

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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby ADTF Academy » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:48 pm

kcvault wrote:
To say it was cause he was 205 pounds is an excuse..... Stories I heard (many from him) he could hold his own in the gymnastics room at 205 pounds. Look at when Paul Turek was on Ninja Warrior at what 210 pounds. An athlete is an athlete


I was just saying being able to invert like that at 205lbs is very impressive, shows how strong Jeff Hartwig is. Also Paul told me he was 195lbs but it may have been to make the 5m 190 he was jumping on seem more reasonable ;).



Just texted Paul... Response was 203-210 for competition and around 200 pounds for ninja warrior.

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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby kcvault » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:57 pm

Off subject but just reminded me of Paul's response if you ask him what Height he is coming in at. Me:"Paul what height are you coming in at?" Paul:"Whatever height you are going out at."

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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby Bubba PV » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:48 pm

Tim Bright made both deca and PV team in 1992.
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Re: Keeping the Pot Boiling 2

Unread postby powerplant42 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:52 pm

He is driving the hips BACKWARDS! HE IS LITERALLY GOING BACKWARDS ON THE POLE!
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