The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

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Unread postby fong520 » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:50 pm

do u think itl work if its on concrete?
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Unread postby Carolina Extreme » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:01 pm

fong520 wrote:do u think itl work if its on concrete?
Plan on spending lots of money on tips. On a rubberized surface tips shouldn't wear out to quickly.
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Unread postby jhesch » Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:05 pm

for what its worth this sounds like a very interesting and perhaps advantageous method that ive never tried or seen performed, but tomorrow, ill definitely give it a shot....any kinda tips on transition from traditional pole carry to this push plant method?

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Unread postby swtvault » Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:07 pm

for what its worth this sounds like a very interesting and perhaps advantageous method that ive never tried or seen performed, but tomorrow, ill definitely give it a shot....any kinda tips on transition from traditional pole carry to this push plant method?


Make sure you start real small! Practice from 2-4 steps at first. Move back as you get more comfortable. Lonestar could probably tell you alot more on the topic.
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Unread postby belmore » Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:49 pm

I don't see a need for controversy on this, it works. Britni is a perfect example, she and Kris have proven this works for some athletes. Not everyone can do it, but the ones that can like Britdawg score some big bars and move big poles. It's not going to fit every athlete, that's why there are so many golf club manufacturers and different styles of running shoes. Britni can just flat out scoot down the runway with this style and has great take off. This is one concern I always hear from learned vault people about this style, the take off is compromised, not in her case. Brit really gets a pretty good take off with this. Granted, she is an exceptional athlete and a dedicated one, but I see away for some vaulters to follow with this and be successful. The only negative is the wearing out of the pole plugs. What's eight bucks over probably a hundred jumps? The plant box lip or apron sticking above the runway should be a non issue, it's not legal for that to be in a competition venue. Anyway, BritDawg can flat out jump pushing or carrying and Kris's other younger vaulters that are excelling with the push also carry and do just as well winning competitions. It works. Kris, job well done, carry on.
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The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby RamVault09 » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:28 pm

belmore wrote:I don't see a need for controversy on this, it works. Britni is a perfect example, she and Kris have proven this works for some athletes. Not everyone can do it, but the ones that can like Britdawg score some big bars and move big poles. It's not going to fit every athlete, that's why there are so many golf club manufacturers and different styles of running shoes. Britni can just flat out scoot down the runway with this style and has great take off. This is one concern I always hear from learned vault people about this style, the take off is compromised, not in her case. Brit really gets a pretty good take off with this. Granted, she is an exceptional athlete and a dedicated one, but I see away for some vaulters to follow with this and be successful. The only negative is the wearing out of the pole plugs. What's eight bucks over probably a hundred jumps? The plant box lip or apron sticking above the runway should be a non issue, it's not legal for that to be in a competition venue. Anyway, BritDawg can flat out jump pushing or carrying and Kris's other younger vaulters that are excelling with the push also carry and do just as well winning competitions. It works. Kris, job well done, carry on.


............Amen!

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Unread postby Carolina Extreme » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:41 pm

jhesch wrote:for what its worth this sounds like a very interesting and perhaps advantageous method that ive never tried or seen performed, but tomorrow, ill definitely give it a shot....any kinda tips on transition from traditional pole carry to this push plant method?
Start walking plants and after you master that, short jog, and lengthen steps as you master timing of push plant over last few steps. Good luck, let us know how it goes... good news is preferred. ;)

Kris, any suggestions to help... you are probably the resident expert?
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Unread postby mowad1 » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:12 am

Hey, pushing the pole helps with cross winds as well. I taught the push to my vaulters during the pre-season and two of them actually kept it for good and now have higher pr's. It was how I learned to vault, but I carry now for some reason. Must be that need to 'fit in' because everyone that I have tested is definitely faster pushing the pole.

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Unread postby lonestar » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:32 am

I'm glad to see some positive dialogue about this for a change. As for me being an expert on it, I'm not sure about that - I think Britni is the expert on it, I just watch her mid and tell her how to adjust.

As for handspread, sometimes it is an issue - I've had a few vaulters grab the pole too narrowly and not be able to punch the bottom arm, and conversely had a few vaulters grab it too wide and block their swing. I've found a few things help with that problem: 1) wrap bottom-hand tape on the pole, and put a bright piece of colored duct tape above and below the bottom handgrip tape for a good visual - orange tape surrounding white is easy to see peripherally 2) as they run, have them practice their arm-swng like a sprinter - open the elbow on the backswing, and bend it on the upswing to just less than 90 degrees 3) tons of walking and jogging plants 4) pole runs with plants That free-arm swinging can really help get you down the runway faster and if timed-up correctly can give you a really strong bottom arm punch at the takeoff.

Pole tips do wear out with this, which does suck, but again, $8.00 doesn't bother me if I have numerous pr's by each kid who does this. Tye told me the best way to get the tip to slide better and not wear out as fast was to take an empty paint can and cut a strip of that super-smooth aluminum about an inch wide and 4 inches long, and make a ski to tape over the end of the pole in line with the soft side. We've tried different tapes and soda cans, but they're just not sturdy enough. Also, rotate the tip on a regular basis so it gets even-wear - eventually, it wears the tip into a dull point.

Roll-out runways suck for this, like the ones used in Reno - a lot of friction. Most outdoor all-weather or mondo runways are pretty decent though.

As for takeoff being compromised, like belmore said, Britni has no issue with it. True, you don't get the lifting/unweighting effect of a good pole drop, but I don't think many people do anyway, and that takes years to learn how to do correctly. Teach people to jump off the ground and there won't be a problem.

Kris
Any scientist who can't explain to an eight-year-old what he is doing is a charlatan. K Vonnegut

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Unread postby TeddyVault » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:13 pm

A way to start and get the feel for this method is to do short drills with both hands on the pole. Then when you take the other hand off eventually it is second nature to bring it up to where you've practiced it. It is a more comfortable way to get off the ground for the first few times as well.
And yes, hold very low to begin with and do very short drills until comfortable. Holding with both hands very close together on short drills makes rocking back very easy by eliminating the bottom arm blocking the swing. It seems like a decent way to give some vaulters the feel of getting inverted, and then by slowly bringing the hands farther apart on these drills they can acclimatise to doing it with a wider grip.
And thanks for the idea of the spray paint can. Soda can aluminum is definitely too crinkly and plastic bottle ski's wear out way too fast. What about those roll up rulers that some hobby stores have made of a really light aluminum or tin?
This is a cool debate, thanks again for starting it.
Maybe I wasn't supposed to eat those paint chips?

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pushing the pole

Unread postby pvprincess » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:09 pm

i think pushing the pole is very effective, it leads to a more comfortable run. Most of the time when it is windy i push the pole, and for the last two meets that i have carried the pole i have had trouble keeping it where i need it. When i have pushed it is when i set my pr's. All in all its just a more comfortable position for me, but for some it might not be the right thing.
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Unread postby lythargic » Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:59 pm

I have used both ways for a long time and found it really helps. I was taught the conventional way but always had a hard time with my arms being properly extended on takeoff. I started the pushing pole method for 3 and 4 step drills, holding 10 jumping 10 etc, and it really improved my takeoff on a full attempt running normal style. I suggest using it for takeoff improvement during drills.


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