The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

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Tim McMichael
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Re: The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby Tim McMichael » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:33 pm

The push plant is, in my opinion a legitimate variation that may limit an athlete's ultimate potential in exchange for considerable early success. I would like to see it called something besides the "push plant" as that is the last phrase I would want in the back of a beginner's mind.

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Re: The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby KirkB » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:37 am

Tim McMichael wrote: ... I would like to see it called something besides the "push plant" as that is the last phrase I would want in the back of a beginner's mind.

Good point.

Maybe call it the Slide Plant?

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Re: The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby vaultmd » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:13 pm

Shack,

Were you part of the group that came through UC Irvine every year? I remember those plugs.

Coach Simonyi was always very kind to me, which I have never forgotten.

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Re: The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby grandevaulter » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:12 am

One alleged 17' jump and that makes this and advanced topic. Should be moved to beginner.

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Re: The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby monteo » Thu May 21, 2015 9:36 pm

I've got two vaulters who push rather than carry, and I've been working on "converting" them to carry since I've always been under the impression that the carry generated more speed. After reading this thread, I'm going to have to get out the timer and find out. Both have kept both hands on the pole the entire run, I'll also have to time the run while pushing with only one hand. Off season is great for these things, I appreciate this thread giving me me more to think about on this subject. That said, it is possible to do a run while pushing the pole and maintaining good posture, as one of my boys does that very well. Other than posture and friction, can anyone offer other ideas as to why pushing would be slower than carry? From prior posts, some folks obviously think pushing is faster - of those, who has verified this with a timer, how many are relying on subjective observations?

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Re: The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby KirkB » Fri May 22, 2015 12:24 am

I don't think it's just a matter of timing a traditional carry and a slide carry and assuming that whatever's faster is better.

There are many pros and cons of each method, and the whole vault needs to be considered - not just the run. In particular, it's more about the plant and takeoff.

There's a definite speed advantage (and comfort advantage) in running down the runway with one hand, compared to two. This is mainly due to the free arm being able to swing like a sprinter's arm. Monteo, your time trials should verify this.

But a bigger concern is the ease of the plant, and the speed on takeoff (so time the last 3 strides, not the middle 3 strides or the entire run).

I haven't tried this, but I would think that the technique is less complicated to learn when sliding the pole into the box, than than with a traditional carry and a drop plant. So especially for beginners, there's a good advantage here.

Thus, if the vaulter is more aggressive (i.e. faster) on takeoff with one technique or the other, that would be the factor that I would look for in trying to decide on the worthiness of the slide carry/plant (or not).

It's interesting that most of the replies in this thread were in 2004, when Tye Harvey was vaulting, and very few since. I don't think this technique (as a training exercise or as a competitive vault technique) should be ignored, just because it may not be as popular as 11 years ago. Or maybe it's still quite popular, but just not discussed on PVP as much? :confused:

And with Tye Harvey vaulting 5.70 with a slide carry, no one can say that this technique is only for beginners. However, my guess is that once you master a traditional/weightless pole carry and a drop plant (which is much harder to learn), the advantages of the slide carry would diminish. If I recall, Tye used the slide carry while he was injured (he couldn't lift or plant the pole with his injured bottom arm very well).

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Re: The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:40 am

I'm too lazy to figure out which thread we discussed this... but did Britni Lawrence have the women's record for highest vault while pushing the pole? Because Chinne Okoronkwo jumped 13'3" at the WA State Meet last weekend, pushing the pole :)

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Re: The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby Decamouse » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:42 am

Ok - not saying which is better - young guy - less than 6 months total vault time- started last year got 2 1/2 months in as soph - never touched pole until the start of practice - now Junior - last year pushed all meets - 11 ft vaulter - did start practicing to carry -- this year plan was to carry and plant in more traditional mode -- would still push on some short run drill - he had lot of areas to work one -- with traditional carry he cleared 13 in about 4th meet -- then Wisconsin typically weather - high 40's and strong head cross to point of hard carry/control pole - told him to go ahead and push - ran an vaulted very well -- we discussed since we have such a short season - keep working towards carry but was running real well so if more comfortable with sliding pole - continued to progress - move up on poles and vaulted 14 ft at State meet -- we do plan on working on carry -- but sure a nice option when you have big cross winds -- we also need to get to point where pole drop helps the last strides versus where he is not as aggressive and floats the last two.
Plant like crap sometimes ok most times

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Re: The Push Plant Issue resurrected!

Unread postby KirkB » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:17 pm

Decamouse wrote: ... weather - high 40's and strong head cross to point of hard carry/control pole - told him to go ahead and push - ran and vaulted very well -- we discussed since we have such a short season - keep working towards carry but was running real well so if more comfortable with sliding pole - continued to progress - move up on poles and vaulted 14 ft at State meet -- we do plan on working on carry -- but sure a nice option when you have big cross winds -- we also need to get to point where pole drop helps the last strides versus where he is not as aggressive and floats the last two.

... told him to go ahead and push - ran and vaulted very well ...

Nice coaching there, Decamouse! :yes:

... sure a nice option when you have big cross winds ...

Very true. :yes:

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!


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