First Movement After Take Off

This is a forum to discuss advanced pole vaulting techniques. If you are in high school you should probably not be posting or replying to topics here, but do read and learn.
swtvault
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Unread postby swtvault » Wed Dec 25, 2002 2:15 am

Why your at it....

s***.......while your taking your spelling lessons jeremy, I think I will take an english class....for first graders!

-jokes on me
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smokinvaulter1
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Unread postby smokinvaulter1 » Wed Dec 25, 2002 3:11 am

LOL I can Teach what vadim says. Every other word start with f.

titojumps
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joker

Unread postby titojumps » Thu Dec 26, 2002 2:51 pm

gpc3 is a real comedian! I got a good laugh out of your instruction. That was great! thanks.

tito

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Re: joker

Unread postby gpc3 » Thu Dec 26, 2002 3:54 pm

or you can do what my coach always said, "Hold high, run fast, and it's all a blur after that anyway."
You can never clear a bar you never attempt.

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Re: joker

Unread postby lonestar » Fri Dec 27, 2002 2:00 am

gpc3 wrote:or you can do what my coach always said, "Hold high, run fast, and it's all a blur after that anyway."


And sooner or later that blur becomes a fade to black when some ignorant high school kid reads that advice, holds too high, lands on his head in the box and dies, thus starting the chain reactions of parents, coaches, athletic directors and state associations wanting to either a) make everyone wear helmets b) drop the event at their school or c) do away with vaulting altogether in their state.

Wake up people! Yes, in the end, science has shown that the fastest guy who can hold the highest has a better shot of jumping the highest, but we ALL need to start preaching SAFE vaulting with CONTROLLED GRIP-HEIGHTS if we want our sport to stick around awhile!

Learn how to jump over your grip, far over your grip, 4 feet over your grip, and

LAND IN THE MIDDLE!!!


Kris
Any scientist who can't explain to an eight-year-old what he is doing is a charlatan. K Vonnegut

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Unread postby gpc3 » Fri Dec 27, 2002 3:40 pm

Wow - talk about an overreaction - that "advice" was obviously "bad advice". And as for jumping four feet over your hand grip - good luck on that - there are only a few elite men who can do that and ZERO women. If you can jump over your top hand four inches in the first year or two you are doing great. The pole vault community has it hard enough right now without us going ballastic on each other all the time. Just when I started making my vaulters wear a helmet I find out that helmets may cause more injuries than it prevents. We need sensible solutions now.
You can never clear a bar you never attempt.

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Unread postby lonpvh » Fri Dec 27, 2002 3:52 pm

I don't think that is an overeaction at all. There are a lot of impressionable kids on this site and I think we should lean to the side of caution. I don't think you should get on someone cause they want to make sure no one else gets hurt. I think Kris gave GREAT advice. lon
Last edited by lonpvh on Sat Dec 28, 2002 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postby PVJunkie » Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:10 pm

Not to pick on you some more but...............where in the world did you hear helmet may cause more injuries than they prevent. There is NO published research on the topic yet. Unless you got an inside track that the rest of us dont know about. Keep the speculation to a minimum!! The truth of the matter is.............NO ONE KNOWS YET!! Right now the MAJORITY opinion from the most knowledgeable is that they help far more often than they MIGHT hurt. Dont give someone bad ammunition to not wear a helmet when its just that.......BAD.

Again, not trying to pick on you but.........lets all wait for the facts before we decide if its a good or bad idea. The best we can tell right now is.........it is better than no protection at all.

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Unread postby gpc3 » Fri Dec 27, 2002 6:15 pm

I quote from www.polevaulteducation.org:

"The vast majority of the vaulters land safely on the pit up to thirty times per workout. During every one of these safe landings the back of the head strikes a soft pit. A helmet can magnify this impact, and the cumulative effects of these landings must be taken into account. Back in the mid-nineties, when Jan Johnson was talking about helmets, Wilson was one of the early adopters and started wearing a helmet (a ProTec skateboard model) while vaulting. This lasted only for one session because he did not like the feeling that his brain was rattling within his cranium. A helmet potentially could result in increased jarring of the brain and low-grade trauma, even when a vault goes perfectly."
You can never clear a bar you never attempt.

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safe

Unread postby titojumps » Fri Dec 27, 2002 10:32 pm

well, as everyone can see, pole vaulters are simulating contemporary politicians. you WILL get s*** if you say something a bit politically incorrect. In the pole vault world political incorrectness is intentionally or unintentionally advocating a dangerous frame of mind. rightfully so. our sport is not only threatened by lack of outside support, but also by scared and overbearing parents who would love to see the world their children live, padded like the new big 10 box. the "grip and rip" phlosophy is dissapearing. a new, more educated pole vaulter is ascending. I believe it's this pole vaulter who will help our sport grow. I like Brian's comment about limiting the amount of speculation. Of course that's difficult and I am guilty of telling a fish story now and again, but i think it's important to be mindfull of our actions. If it has potential to hurt someone, it's probably best left to facts. and brian, as gpc3 pointed out, there is actually some written material about potential helmet danger. I think it's to early to call heads or tails on the issue though. and i feel like meny of the arguments now, both positive and negitive, are coming from people that are a bit bias.

and gpc3, i understand that every once in a while there comes a point in a meet when you feel like you just have to nut up and do it (again, i'm guilty). but the fact remains that if you don't jump as high as you would have liked in a meet but came out unhurt, then you'll have another meet to jump again. where as, if you lay it on the line, it's important to remember, it may be the last time.

yea, yea, i'm gettin' old.
tito

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Unread postby PVJunkie » Fri Dec 27, 2002 10:57 pm

That article has no scientific basis. It was an Opinion!!! An opinion by well respected people in the vault community with lots of degrees on their walls, but just that an OPINION! The fact he felt somthing like that doesnt surprise me, he said what people wanted to hear. I know for a fact that Toby Stevenson has never felt that nor have I, any of the athletes I coach or any of the 100's of helmet wearing vaulters I talk to on a weekly basis. So go figure, one person, who didnt want to wear a helmet to begin with, says it didnt feel right. Well some new pits are so stiff they jar your brain too, got any solutions for that one. Lets all wait for the REAL STUDIES to be published before we get into this debate (kind word for argument). I could make a couple of phone calls and write an article to contridict every word of that one..........but it would be identicle to that one in that it would have no legs (research) to stand on. You obviously do not wear a helmet and I respect your right to chose (for now) but if you have never tried it how can you possibly have even an opinion?? Would you ask a bum on the street how to become rich?? If you dont like it........so be it, you still have the option not to wear one but dont influence some beginner who may stand a much greater chance of sustaining a catastrophic accident than yourself to not wear one becase of the cool factor. In my OPINION that is the only reason so many people are not wearing them. The point here was not are helmet right or wrong (NO ONE knows tha answer to that one yet) it was the power of those of us on this board to influence the OPINIONS of others on this board. Seat belts save lives (and i wear mine occasionally) and they are 100x more uncomfortable than my helmet. Hey theres an idea, I will start wearing it when I drive!! The biggest thing is get one that fits properly and give it a shot!! A few states have made it mandatory and more are on the way so wether you (or anyone else) like it or not its a reality, until the research says otherwise. Be smart and read the article at face value. Very educated vaulters shooting from the hip with no hard facts to fall back on. I know it doesnt sound like it but I am nuetral on the issue until I have all the FACTS on the issue to make an informed decision.

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Unread postby gpc3 » Sat Dec 28, 2002 12:13 am

wow - didn't this thread get the juice flowing? I'm on record that whatever produces safe vaulting, I'm for. The problem is that legislators have no clue what the PV is about and they think they can regulate safety in an event where VERY good people can die in an ACCIDENT. The Penn State athlete knew what he was doing, as did his coach. No helmet in the world will save a broken neck. If real pole vaulters come up with a real PV helmet, I will be in the line to buy it, wear it, and make my athletes wear it. That hasn't happened yet and the states that mandate helmets now, don't really have a clue. I also repeat: the 'hold high and let it rip' was quoted by me disparagingly - that's the WORST advice I've ever heard. Obviuosly my sarcasm was understated.

What everyone has to do now is
calm down
take a deep breath
be rational, not vindictive or emotional
attack faulty ideas, not individuals
come up with constructive criticism that will benefit the sport
keep the PV community united among ourselves

or
the event will disappear in an increasingly litigious society
You can never clear a bar you never attempt.


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