double leg swing and getting inverted

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double leg swing and getting inverted

Unread postby Cbever » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:57 pm

I am not quite a double legger like colwick but more of a lavillenie style. A little background info: I was a gymnast my whole life,
Im a sophomore vaulter in Junior college South Plains TX with a PR of 16' height 5'8'' weight 168.

My take off is like that of lavillenie, I will try to get a video up when I can, But upon take off I drive out with my knee but when the swing initiates my leg drops so they are together on the swing.

Now my problem is in the swing, my hips have hard time getting past level so I can get vertical. They usually stop at about 4 inches from being level and this makes me come more out than up, but im strong enough to still muscle a decent upward motion and jump well above my handgrip. My legs usually stay straight as well and i have never really tried to tuck and shoot like renaud. Im wondering about the physics behind being a drop knee vaulter and if they are affecting my ability to get my hips up and drop my shoulders to become fully inverted.

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Re: double leg swing and getting inverted

Unread postby Andy_C » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:22 pm

Hi there,

It would be really good if you could show the video.

Levillenie is actually a really good example for this case. The one thing I would really like to comment about him is his take off placement. He pre-jumps (takes off waaay out).

The French have their own way of vaulting which is quite different to what I'm used to here in Australia. But as far as I know one of the main things they try to do is take off as far out as possible - not always achieved but they try to do it. Mind you, that's only 2nd hand information, I've never actually worked with somebody under their system but that's what I've heard. If somebody has a more accurate remark by all means correct me.

Anyway, having a significant pre-jump changes *everything*

In terms of the swing, the pre-jump allows the speed of the run to continue into the swing much more efficiently and it gives you a lot more time on the pole. The timing of the whole swing-invert-extend sequence will also be closer to perfect.

As for Lavillenie, IMO he can drop both legs and tuck and shoot very successfully (much much better than the bigger/stronger guys with similar technique) because he pre-jumps. Dropping both legs will slow down the swing - but if you can argue that a vaulter will swing to inversion fast enough you can build a case to justify it. If you pre-jump, theoretically you can make a big case that the 'time gained' from the pre-jump will negate the 'time lost' in dropping the leg - therefore you can drop the leg to get more penetration without losing out with a slow swing. As for tucking and shooting I think he has to do it to invert enough for the extension because dropping both legs will change the dynamics of the swing from a continuous flowing arc (like a giant swing) to a sudden jolt (like a rubber band snapping). Theoretically, the 'flowing arc' will retain more consistent momentum throughout the whole of the swing and (IMO) will cause a faster swing-to-inversion and will apply more pressure-over-time on the pole. The 'band snapping' will cause huge initial pressure which will drop off drastically in the 2nd/upper half of the swing, it kills the momentum and results in a slower upper half and overall swing. But if you drop both legs you will get more initial penetration!

In theory, the best way to actually swing is like a giant swing on a high bar. It exerts huge continuous pressure on the pole in a flowing arc. However the argument against that is that you can never invert in time with a massive full body swing. If you can chip away or negate that counteracting argument somehow, you've got yourself a huge advantage over just about everybody else on the runway.

That's my opinion just looking at this whole thing. But again, if you can pre-jump, the whole game changes and new doors start opening up! :yes:

That said, I think the Petrov/Bubka way is still the best way to jump even with a huge pre-jump. However, because almost nobody can pre-jump - we don't have too many ways of gathering data and exploring the possibilities of evolving the technique. As for now, I would consider the pre-jump as "the final frontier" of modern technique.

To sum it up - the pre-jump changes the entire game!
It will allow you to do things that you otherwise would not be able to accomplish even taking off on the right spot. And don't even get me started about comparing it to taking off under!

If your technique is like Lavillenie - and I'm gonna have to see a video for that :P - but you can't invert well enough, you probably take off under or maybe just at the right spot (which may not even be enough for ideal timing). Either that or you're doing some kind of pulling/unnecessary manipulation but that's unlikely if you're good at high bar. From your height and background you should be able to swing much better than most vaulters even with a leg drop. Still, I would recommend the Petrov/Bubka technique - keep that leg up!

Hard work is wasted energy if you don't work wisely!

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