Who needs to improve the most?

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VaultPurple
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Who needs to improve the most?

Unread postby VaultPurple » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:17 am

Just something to think about.....

In 2001 Stacy Dragila pole vaulted 4.70 and recorded a runway speed of 8.96m/s

In 2009 Brad Walker pole vaulted 5.75 and recorded a runway speed of 8.98m/s

There have also been several male pole vaulters to pole vault over 5.50 with much slower speed than 8.96m/s....

So which sex is underachieving the most? Are the guys too slow, or are the women just doing something really wrong?

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Re: Who needs to improve the most?

Unread postby Barto » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:48 pm

When and where did Stacy run 8.96 mps?
Facts, Not Fiction

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Re: Who needs to improve the most?

Unread postby VaultPurple » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:49 pm

2001 USATF Championships, but it was actually during her attempt at 4.20 for opening height. It is in Dr. McGinnis runway velocity records. Maybe it is a misprint.. but he also has her listed at 8.82 at the 2001 Golden Spike Invitation. But anyway, her and Jenn have a combined 12 jumps at 8.70 or faster which is more than enough for a guy to jump 17'6 or 18'.

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Re: Who needs to improve the most?

Unread postby dj » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:02 am

The Numbers…..

Tully 1…

Grip……………………………………..4.92m..
Max COM…5.81m….@.66cm deep@1.50sec

Takeoff………………………26cm/10"..under..
Plant arm…………………….97.1%... up……..
Pole angle……………………………….29.2degrees

Penultimate (next to last step)……………9.34mps..
……………………………length………2.14/7'…
Last………………………………………9.43…..
……………………………length……….2.00/6'6..

Foot note...Body angle @Completion of backward rotation from plant…
…………...76.3degrees@.73sec
………….. and time @ lower hand release…1.15sec


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Tully Jump 2…

Grip………………………………………4.97m..
Max COM....5.88....@1.15m.deep…@1.58sec

Takeoff………………………..6cm/2.4"..under…
Plant arm……………………….96.5%...up….
Pole angle…………………………………30.3degrees

Penultimate…(next to last step)…………….9.47mps..
……………………………..length………..2.21/7'3..
Last………………………………………...9.09mps.!!
…………………………...…length……….2.08m/6'10..

Foot note...Body angle @Completion of backward rotation from plant…
…………...61.8degrees@.72sec
………….. and time @ lower hand release…1.12sec


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Bubka…..

Grip…………………………………………5.10m..
Max COM…6.12m…@1.05.deep..@1.55sec……..

Takeoff…………………………10cm/4"...under…
Plant arm………………………..99.4%..up……..
Pole angle…………………………………..28.6 degrees

Penultimate….(next to last step)……………9.46mps..
……………………………….length……….2.10m..
Last………………………………………….9.54mps
……………………………….length……….2.04m

Foot note...Body angle @Completion of backward rotation from plant…
…………...80.8degrees@.81sec
………….. and time @ lower hand release…1.10sec




Notes…. The 9.09 number on Tully number 2 was confusing.. I couldn't find the answer to why? And Peter though that maybe there was a "data" error… He never had time and it wasn't important to 're-do" the numbers…

I know Tully's jumps pretty well. On this Jump I know he was running well but was out at his "MID"… I logged all our training and competitions… and based on that, the "numbers" indicate he "stretched" his penultimate.. too much but did try and cut the last step to be "on"….. given that.. he still has a "freer" takeoff than Bubka.. a greater pole angle, because of his reach and height…BUT he wasn't nearly as extended with the plant arm as Bubka!!!

This combined with how you get to a free takeoff and what you do WITH a free takeoff is the difference in Petrov/Bubka (I got from the Reno talk) thinking and what we had been thinking but were now beginning or in the process of changing.

Knowing Tully's thinking compared to Petrov's help me put many of the numbers in context.. and I found you couldn't "jump to conclusions" without checking all the numbers…

Just like me saying Tully had a "freer' takeoff than Bubka… I can "brag" that but that an $3.95 will get you a coffee at Starbucks….

Yes based on the women's numbers they can and should be jumping higher… I indicated before that from the beginning of the women vaulting their world record should be at least 17-3..

But… again we need to look at the whole picture… if a vaulter is running fast BUT
1. Stretching…
2. Taking off too far under from vertical
3. Doesn't have the plant arm extended
4. Doesn't have posture and an "impulse" the speed doesn't mean much at all..

Does this sound like Alan…; )

Notice I put a foot note… for good reason…

First I know Tully was "blowing" through with a "freer" takeoff… although he had a low plant and a kind of "flat" takeoff… so he had to "come out of the jump" (swing) early just to make the bar.. hence no full swing and less vertical body going to vertical on the swing…

But Bubka "came out of" his jump early also BUT swung faster from the takeoff so his body angel was nearer to vertical when he did release the bottom hand from the pole!!! so

This goes back to what Petrov said in Reno…
Plant as high as you can..
…….as free as you can..
…….stretch the arms "higher" than you can AT the takeoff…….
……and swing absolutely as fast as you can..….

Yes we have the numbers to jump higher…

And yes some men have "muscled' the pole (force bending…running from short runs) and have jumped higher than the speed numbers indicate… BUT there are some prices to pay for that… first your "plateau" (jump height) will be lower than if you vault "freer' WITH your speed… Number two… you will always be inconsistent and depending how "jacked" up ypou are you will continue to nee the next bigger pole.. number three injury… you will be injured more than well…

A pole should never "feel" too strong on a good vault… you should feel the pole is too soft… always… you are supposed to "load/bend" the pole with the natural weight of your body with a correct takeoff… using a "big" pole forces you to "press bend" and depending on how hard and how long you press the pole will 'over' bend… giving you and your coach the wrong signals… I'm going through that with my jumpers right now… ones that I did not start in the event.. They have learned over the years to move there run back a foot after each vault and go to a bigger pole.. this is because they always have started with a big pole, step under by a foot.. force a big bend… to them meaning move back get a bigger pole.. they continue that until they can not longer make the pit and are out of the competition… for these athletes that has been at 4/4.10 meters….

I have covered a lot here..

Point one… is we have to look at several numbers, not just speed and not just speed on one step… point two… I think this answers another thread about the most important part of vaulting… I believe it has always been the plant takeoff, with a BUTT… decamouse made this point but followed with "chicken and egg"… run or plant/plant or run.… has to be the run… the first step… that’s where the "chain" starts….

Hope this is helpful not only for this thread but the vault in the USA in general..

dj


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