translating 5m sprint times to real sprint numbers???

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parkerclay
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translating 5m sprint times to real sprint numbers???

Unread postby parkerclay » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:31 am

Is there a way to translate the final 5m velocity to a 100m time or at least a 10m interval?


6.00 Meter Club
A list of all pole vaulters who have cleared 6.00 meters or higher.
Courtesy of Vitaly Petrov
with helpful additions by Tim Mack, Shawn Devereaux and Gerard Dumas.
Name Country PR (cm) Year Height (cm) Weight (kg) Pole Grip (cm) Pushoff (cm) Velocity last 5m (m/sec) Index of the 5.20m pole Age training began PR At Age 14 (cm) 17 20 23 27 Age when jumped PR
Sergei Bubka Ukraine 615 1992 183 80 518 117 9.94 10.6 10 360 510 594 601 612 28
Maxim Tarasov Russia 605 1999 194 81 515 110 9.75 11.2 10 380 540 585 590 605 29
Dmitri Markov Australia 605 2001 181 80 514 111 9.84 11.8 12-HJ
14-PV 360 510 565 600 605 25
Okert Brits South Africa 603 1995 196 88 512 111 9.74 10.4 14 n/a 480 570 603 603 22
Jeff Hartwig USA 603 2000 194 92 508 115 9.73 10.8 15 n/a 470 510 541 566 33
Rodion Gataulin USSR 602 1989 190 81 510 112 9.75 11.4 11 400 520 575 590 602 24
Igor Tradenkov Russia 601 1996 190 78 508 113 9.47 11.7 12 330 510 550 565 585 30
Tim Mack USA 601 2004 188 80 500 121 ~9.5 12.6 13 320 411 530 560 581 32
Tim Lobinger Germany 600 1997 190 82 503 118 9.62 11.4 9 450 490 550 590 600 25
Danny Ecker Germany 600 1999 193 78 505 115 9.71 11.7 11 380 490 572 600 600 22
Jean Galfione France 600 1999 184 82 505 115 9.68 11.9 10-Dec
15-PV n/a 516 580 592 594 28
Toby Stevenson USA 600 2004 186 82 9.52 12.6 540 573 600 27
Paul Burgess Australia 600 2005 183 83 11.6 n/a 535 560 575 600 25
Brad Walker USA 600 2006 188 84 427 548 582 n/a 25
Steve Hooker Australia 600 2008 187 83 507 113 11.5 500 525 587 n/a 25

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IAmTheWalrus
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Re: translating 5m sprint times to real sprint numbers???

Unread postby IAmTheWalrus » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:32 am

Well its a velocity, so if you divide the distance by the velocity you will get the time it takes to cover that distance at that velocity. So if you run at 9.94 m/s over the last 5m, that would translate to a time 10.06 seconds to cover 100m. HOWEVER this velocity was taken over the last 5m of the run, so it is their top speed with a pole. Clearly an athlete does not instantly accelerate to top speed in a 100m dash, so while Bubka would cover 100m in 10.06 seconds at top speed (with a pole) he would likely run a 100m dash a bit slower. I can't give you an exact time, but I'd guess that if you factor in acceleration and take the pole out of his hands he would probably run the 100m in about 10.2-10.4 seconds (totally an intuitive guess).

I believe in BTB2 it says that Bubka could achieve a top speed, without a pole of 10.73m/s (a 9.3 second hundred) so when trying to extrapolate a 100m time from this chart it all comes down to efficiency of the pole carry and plant ( Bubka lost almost 1 m/s when running with the pole, and he was about as efficient as they come) and acceleration. I think the velocity data is whats really important to note though, and if you are interested in comparing to yourself, then run a 100m and a 60m, then take 40m and divide it by the difference between your times. That should give you a ballpark top speed.
-Nick

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KirkB
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Re: translating 5m sprint times to real sprint numbers???

Unread postby KirkB » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:13 pm

IAmTheWalrus wrote: ... I believe in BTB2 it says that Bubka could achieve a top speed, without a pole of 10.73m/s (a 9.3 second hundred) ...

If this is what you're trying to measure, I wouldn't do a 100m and a 60m then calculate from there. I realize that the question that started this thread is to calculate a 100m time from a 5m time ... so that you can compare 100m times of 6.00m Club vaulters to your own. But why not reverse this? Figure out YOUR 5m times!

The important questions for PV are:

1. What is your top speed (last 5m of your run) WITHOUT a pole?
2. What is your top speed (last 5m of your run) WITH a pole?
3. At what run length do you reach top speed WITH a pole?

Let's simplify this to be even meters - 25m, 30m, 35m, and 40m. Those convert to 82', 98', 114', and 131'.

Just about every vaulter ... at every level (except maybe beginner) ... will reach their top speed WITH a pole somewhere between 25-40m. That's why most long runs are 82-131'. Rarely shorter, rarely longer.

So start by timing yourself (or your vaulters) at each of these 4 distances WITHOUT the pole. It's better to run each of them with a flying start (jog 5m before you hit the start line) - to eliminate any differences in skill with starting blocks. Besides, it's simpler. You MUST do the flying start EXACTLY the same way ... same acceleration ... for each distance. Otherwise, the results won't be comparable.

Subtract your 25m time from your 30m time. There's your 5m DELTA time. (DELTA just means "the difference between the two".) Then subtract your 30m time from your 35m time. Is it more or less than your first DELTA time? Then subtract your 35m time from your 40m time. More or less than your first or second DELTA time?

If your fastest DELTA was between 35-40m, then you should also run a 45m ... just to verify that you're not longer accelerating past 40m (131').

Do a few reps of each, but be sure to run each of the 4 distances BEFORE you do your 2nd rep of each. Otherwise, the deltas won't be comparable. Take only the FASTEST time of each rep.

That's WITHOUT a pole. Now run WITH a pole. I wouldn't complicate this by running with a long pole. I'd use a stubby. Just long enough to use your normal grip width, and to simulate the lack of shoulder/arm pumping action. Using a long pole isn't a fair comparison, becuz you run differently depending on how low you're carrying the pole at varying intervals during your full runup. Keep it simple.

Go thru the same DELTA calculations as WITHOUT the pole.

This should tell you how long your optimal run is ... as well as what your optimal speed is (or can be) during your last 5m.

Keep in mind that there's a still a significant difference between running with a stubby and running with a long pole. So the 5m speeds and optimal run length that you calculated here is not quite accurate ... your speed with a long pole will always be slightly slower. It takes you a little longer to accelerate to top speed ... but your top speed is slower.

Here's an open question: Do you think your optimal long run with a LONG pole should be slightly longer or slightly shorter than with a stubby? Why?

Getting back to the original question posed for this thread, the 6m Club vaulters were likely timed in their last 5m down the runway. To compare apples to apples, you should get timed in your last 5m too. But the process I described above does more than tell you what your top 5m speed is ... it's a way to determine your optimal run length. At the same time, it's a sprint workout!

Wally, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that to calculate your m/s (meters per second) speed, you take the time of your fastest 5m, and you divide 5.00 by your time. That is, it's ALWAYS an average of your speed over EXACTLY 5m (not 1m, not 40m, and not 100m).

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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KirkB
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Re: translating 5m sprint times to real sprint numbers???

Unread postby KirkB » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:40 pm

parkerclay wrote:Is there a way to translate the final 5m velocity to a 100m time or at least a 10m interval?

To answer the 2nd part of this question, just double the 5m time. ;)

But if you have your 10m time to compare to the 6m Club vaulters, then why don't you have your 5m time? And if you don't have it, then why not just get it? :confused:

As I suggested in the last post, you can't necessarily maintain top speed for 10m, so I think it's standard practice to compute your m/s speed over the last 5m.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Polevaulter2012
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Re: translating 5m sprint times to real sprint numbers???

Unread postby Polevaulter2012 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:33 pm

parkerclay wrote:Brad Walker USA 600 2006 188 84 427 548 582 n/a 25

Brad jumped 6.04 not 6m


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