The Real Questions of the 6.40 Model
Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:41 pm
I decided to start a new topic not to take away from the previous one though it already started going all over the place.
On a daily basis I have the privilege to work with one of the fastest men and fastest women vaulters in the world on the runway.... Mark around 9.7 m/s and Mary around 8.6 m/s. Both have exceptional reaches for a man and women as well. So what next you might ask.
I was one of the main people who three or four years ago sat on here and talked about all kinds of theory and beliefs than read information about the 6.40 model and people's theories of what others are doing. Most of us can't think or are patient enough to look 10 years into the future. Sadly we live in a world of results now or someone else will come along.
Despite all the conversation here DJ summed it up based, the best men go from takeoff to full bend in under .5 seconds and takeoff to max height in under 1.5 seconds. Gripping as high as possible on as stiff of a pole as possible to allow the previous statements to hold true. What occurs between that is a blur. If the vaulter is not sold out to what ever model you are attempting to perform it doesn't matter. I use this analogy all the time when i give presentations on training theory.
Athlete A works with coach who does everything wrong with basic training theory but athlete A trust coach and would do anything for him therefore athlete A succeeds. Athlete B works with best coach doing everything correct with training theory but doesn't trust coach and athlete B fails.
Why? How long does it take a behavior or action to become habitual? How can we sell this model or our own ideas to our athletes to produce results? Before you can have one agreed upon model you need to have one agreed upon training environment that lasts more than 5 years at a time. How many of our top vaulters do you think come out of high school meet there college coach day 1 and he or she goes, "congrats on coming everything we do from this day forward will be based on you peaking 10 years from now?"
Everything is based on vaulters jumping as high as they can 1 year at a time. This is why our top vaulters right now are in their mid to late 30's. They finally got away from this and slowly developed into the vaulters they are.
Will Mark Hollis ever developed into the model I believe in perfectly.... Right now as Kirk put it best I hope he can stay healthy enough to last 7 more years to find out (he will only be 32 than). We are seeing progress and running into new obstacles all the time. But he is advancing and is healthy enough to keep vaulting.
Next are the real questions that need to be answered!
What is the traits of the athlete everyone thinks it will take to jump the 6.40 Model.... What elements will allow them to grip high enough to make this work... What grip will it even take to jump that high? None of these questions where ever answered in the 6.40 model just what they should do.
Will it allow a vaulter jumping with a lower grip to produce a greater flyaway or will it allow vaulters to grip higher or will it just create magic height for now real reason? Cause and effect. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you have a vaulter do something there will be a consequence. As a coach you need to make that logical decision that produces the least number of consequences in hindering max height achieved for your vaulter. if you only think in terms of benefits to doing something your doomed to fail before you start. DJ has been the only one to give us coaches pure data to look at. Everything we attempt has to be one with the fact that Mark needs to go takeoff to max bend in under .5 seconds and takeoff to max height in under 1.5 seconds. Despite errors I can say we are way under both of those figures in his jumps.
Fighting over what the bottom arm does without concrete data to produce an athlete even possible of breaking the WR is not someone who can contribute to a conversation about breaking the WR. Sorry! If you do not understand the consequences of having a stiff bottom arm to bend the pole you need to go figure out that first... If your ok with them than you can preach have a stiff bottom arm. Won't lie the reason I advanced as a coach so fast is because I was smart enough that when I worked with coaches that had been around for 30+ years and they told me, "Danny you will be tempted to slam your head against the wall, don't do it, when I was a young coach I thought it would help and guess what it only hurt." I actually listened to them most of the time and will say I have only slammed my head against a few walls.
As a coach when you read or think of something new it sounds amazing like you discovered the holy grail. The bottom arm is everyones holy grail at first it sounds so amazing and productive till you actually identify the consequences. Stop slamming your heads against the wall.
So please tell me the answers to those questions. Theory is good but what are the rewards for doing something and what are the consequences.
WR will be broken either with higher grip or more flyaway.
20'3" - 3'7" = 16'8" grip plus 8" in the ground so hand hold of around 17'4" or just under a 5.30 grip with 3'7" flyaway
20'3 -4'3" = 16'grip plus 8" in the ground so hand hold of around 16'8" or just under a 5.10 grip with 4'3" flyaway
How do we produce 4'3" of flyaway is the thing that needs to be answered we have many vaulters who can rotate 5.10 grips but can't get that flyaway or how do we produce 5.30 grips or any combination in between.
On a daily basis I have the privilege to work with one of the fastest men and fastest women vaulters in the world on the runway.... Mark around 9.7 m/s and Mary around 8.6 m/s. Both have exceptional reaches for a man and women as well. So what next you might ask.
I was one of the main people who three or four years ago sat on here and talked about all kinds of theory and beliefs than read information about the 6.40 model and people's theories of what others are doing. Most of us can't think or are patient enough to look 10 years into the future. Sadly we live in a world of results now or someone else will come along.
Despite all the conversation here DJ summed it up based, the best men go from takeoff to full bend in under .5 seconds and takeoff to max height in under 1.5 seconds. Gripping as high as possible on as stiff of a pole as possible to allow the previous statements to hold true. What occurs between that is a blur. If the vaulter is not sold out to what ever model you are attempting to perform it doesn't matter. I use this analogy all the time when i give presentations on training theory.
Athlete A works with coach who does everything wrong with basic training theory but athlete A trust coach and would do anything for him therefore athlete A succeeds. Athlete B works with best coach doing everything correct with training theory but doesn't trust coach and athlete B fails.
Why? How long does it take a behavior or action to become habitual? How can we sell this model or our own ideas to our athletes to produce results? Before you can have one agreed upon model you need to have one agreed upon training environment that lasts more than 5 years at a time. How many of our top vaulters do you think come out of high school meet there college coach day 1 and he or she goes, "congrats on coming everything we do from this day forward will be based on you peaking 10 years from now?"
Everything is based on vaulters jumping as high as they can 1 year at a time. This is why our top vaulters right now are in their mid to late 30's. They finally got away from this and slowly developed into the vaulters they are.
Will Mark Hollis ever developed into the model I believe in perfectly.... Right now as Kirk put it best I hope he can stay healthy enough to last 7 more years to find out (he will only be 32 than). We are seeing progress and running into new obstacles all the time. But he is advancing and is healthy enough to keep vaulting.
Next are the real questions that need to be answered!
What is the traits of the athlete everyone thinks it will take to jump the 6.40 Model.... What elements will allow them to grip high enough to make this work... What grip will it even take to jump that high? None of these questions where ever answered in the 6.40 model just what they should do.
Will it allow a vaulter jumping with a lower grip to produce a greater flyaway or will it allow vaulters to grip higher or will it just create magic height for now real reason? Cause and effect. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you have a vaulter do something there will be a consequence. As a coach you need to make that logical decision that produces the least number of consequences in hindering max height achieved for your vaulter. if you only think in terms of benefits to doing something your doomed to fail before you start. DJ has been the only one to give us coaches pure data to look at. Everything we attempt has to be one with the fact that Mark needs to go takeoff to max bend in under .5 seconds and takeoff to max height in under 1.5 seconds. Despite errors I can say we are way under both of those figures in his jumps.
Fighting over what the bottom arm does without concrete data to produce an athlete even possible of breaking the WR is not someone who can contribute to a conversation about breaking the WR. Sorry! If you do not understand the consequences of having a stiff bottom arm to bend the pole you need to go figure out that first... If your ok with them than you can preach have a stiff bottom arm. Won't lie the reason I advanced as a coach so fast is because I was smart enough that when I worked with coaches that had been around for 30+ years and they told me, "Danny you will be tempted to slam your head against the wall, don't do it, when I was a young coach I thought it would help and guess what it only hurt." I actually listened to them most of the time and will say I have only slammed my head against a few walls.
As a coach when you read or think of something new it sounds amazing like you discovered the holy grail. The bottom arm is everyones holy grail at first it sounds so amazing and productive till you actually identify the consequences. Stop slamming your heads against the wall.
So please tell me the answers to those questions. Theory is good but what are the rewards for doing something and what are the consequences.
WR will be broken either with higher grip or more flyaway.
20'3" - 3'7" = 16'8" grip plus 8" in the ground so hand hold of around 17'4" or just under a 5.30 grip with 3'7" flyaway
20'3 -4'3" = 16'grip plus 8" in the ground so hand hold of around 16'8" or just under a 5.10 grip with 4'3" flyaway
How do we produce 4'3" of flyaway is the thing that needs to be answered we have many vaulters who can rotate 5.10 grips but can't get that flyaway or how do we produce 5.30 grips or any combination in between.