Steve Hooker's New Swing

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altius
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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby altius » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:13 pm

Yes you did indeed old son.

IMO The first jump - his first 6.00 clearance - shows what a perfect take off should look like, while the second show what a perfect inversion should look like - the second is possible because of the first.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby KirkB » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:16 am

As a Petrover, I actually agree 100% with the technique that Bubka demonstrated on this 6.00 jump. I believe this to be the BEST model to follow. Coincidentally, it was the model I followed ... even tho I never knew it as the Petrov Model at the time. So it was certainly the best model for ME ... and I'm certain that I would have failed miserably had I gone with the drop-the-lead-knee technique.

The 2 main points made ... I assume the commentator on the vid was Altius? ... were that he has a free takeoff (even a pre-jump) ... and that he covers the pole. I agree full-heartedly with both these points.

I also liked the point made of shooting up and BACK (what KC coined as the 1 o'clock position) ... and relies on the pole's speed to carry him horizontally over the bar. This is why standards at 80 is the best placement ... if you don't have sufficient pole speed to carry you over a bar at 80, then there's something fundamentally wrong ... becuz you won't be able to shoot straight up ... or shoot to 1 o'clock ... without fear of stalling out. I digress.

HOWEVER, the fact that Hooker has cleared 6.06 with his variant of the Petrov Model ... call it just a slight variant becuz he drops his lead knee, or call it a different model ... whatever ... I don't think seeing Bubka clearing 6.00 ... or 6.15 for that matter ... PROVES that it's a better model than what we see Hooker doing.

Like I said ... I'm keeping an open mind on the possibility that dropping the lead knee MIGHT be an advantage over keeping it up ... PROVIDED THAT YOU CAN STILL COVER THE POLE! For most of us, therein lies the rub.

If you follow the path of their COM ... and trail leg foot ... you'll see that Bubka and Hooker follow distinctly different paths ... Bubka being of course much closer to the pole than Hooker. But does that mean that Bubka covers the pole better? I don't think so. I don't see the pole getting ahead of Hooker. If it did, he wouldn't have cleared 6.06!

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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby altius » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:43 am

Well again you may be right - lets see what happens in the final! But whatever - I tend to follow the view of Erasmus who in 1551 said - in Latin of course - Perhaps it is better to have one way of wisdom provided that it be true. I believe that what Bubka did was 'true' and that the vast majority of vaulters would do well to follow that model - whatever Hooker does this weekend. As a coach you must take a position based on the principles of biomechanics - I agree in this situation you have swings and roundabouts - one element of biomechanics (and the more obvious and easy to see) suggests that a double leg swing is an advantage, while another - fully exploiting the recoil (and not so obvious) is also an advantage. Obviously I hope Hooker will vault like he did in Sydney because if he does not he may negatively impact a lot of vaulters and coaches - there is always a temptation in all track and field disciplines to leap onto whatever the world record holder or Olympic champion does. The only time that made sense was when Fosbury showed us how the high jump really should be performed!

Inevitably ones view is coloured by ones experience. I saw two athletes close up in Markov and Tchystiakov who did not maximise their potential because they lost on the roundabout - having gained too much in the swing! After he had retired Dima confirmed that on reflection this had happened in his case - not sure about Victor -he is somewhere in Siberia buying up oil wells I imagine.

On another topic entirely I hope all you folk who find reasons not to use me in your clinics realise what you are missing! ;) O:-)
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby swtvault » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:14 pm

rainbowgirl28 wrote:Here's some trivia... what do you think Petrov told David Butler to do when he showed him video of Jason Colwick and asked what direction to take this vaulter?


Curious as to what the answer to this was? I would think that a guy as smart as Petrov knows how damaging it can be to try and re-invent the wheel in a case like this--but I could be wrong. Fill us in!
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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:41 pm

swtvault wrote:
rainbowgirl28 wrote:Here's some trivia... what do you think Petrov told David Butler to do when he showed him video of Jason Colwick and asked what direction to take this vaulter?


Curious as to what the answer to this was? I would think that a guy as smart as Petrov knows how damaging it can be to try and re-invent the wheel in a case like this--but I could be wrong. Fill us in!



Your gut is correct. Petrov told him not to change it.

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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby altius » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:37 am

"or shoot to 1 o'clock" Which way do your clocks run in canada? I would have thought Bubka's position was more like 11 oclock - or even earlier!!

But let us look at the video - if any ever emerges - and let us see what he actually did on his 6.01 jump. I just hope that if we do see the kind of swing that I favour, we will not get a host of blogs claiming that since he did not jump a pr it is not really a true indicator of what he is trying to do with his technique - or that an even bigger pole would have changed everything -or a pole with a different sail piece would have done the same! What I do hope is that all the folk who pontificated that this would happen, will now put their hands up and say that they were wrong and not insist on defending their position. I promise you that if we do see a double leg swing I will apologise for my ignorance.

I have a phone call plugged into talk with Alex early next week and i will try to find out what his position really is on this. However it may be worth making one more point - Both Vikki and Liz Parnov - 4.40 at 16 and 4.30 at 15 - both use that model ie not a double leg swing. I cant imagine Alex teaching them that model if he did not believe it to be superior. Especially given that neither have great runway speed. :dazed:
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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby KirkB » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:57 am

altius wrote:"or shoot to 1 o'clock" Which way do your clocks run in canada? I would have thought Bubka's position was more like 11 oclock - or even earlier!!

A better question might be: "Which side of the runway do you observe the vault from?" If it's the left side, then "shoot to 1 o'clock" makes sense! ;)

Actually, it's not even a question of how it's done in Canada. I was merely quoting kcvault when he coined the term last October ... http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18638&p=133244&hilit=11+o+clock#p133244

kcvault wrote:I also think if I could get her to swing past her top hand to 1 o'clock it will help compensate for this, along with turning into the pole insted of falling away from it.

So either the clocks run backwards in California, or they watch the vault from the LEFT side of the runway! :D

KC, you were talking about swinging back towards the runway (past vertical), were you not? :confused:

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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby kcvault » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:30 am

KC, you were talking about swinging back towards the runway (past vertical), were you not?


I guess it would have been less confusing to say runway side of the pole. It just seems more visual if I picture a clock.

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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby dj » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:52 pm

hey

nice looking jump...

but was there still knee drop?? and maybe it did slow the swing a little but i don't think it kept him from coming back and 'covering the pole"..

i think that is just confidence at where he is.. and speeding the last part of the swing and continue back...



dj

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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby xjoeyx » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:40 pm

I watched Hooker's jumps at 6.01 and 6.16 online when live feed was posting. I played it back a few times especially at 6.01 and his knee didn't seem to drop any (at least compared to how much it dropped before) his swing also looked much better. His jumps at 6.16 would have been much closer had he not hit the bar on the way up :yes:
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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby altius » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:03 pm

Appreciate the input joeyx, but has anyone seen - have access to - film that SHOWS EXACTLY what Hooker did at 6.01? Until we get that, the strange silence here will continue - everyone seems to have left the arena. :dazed:
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: Steve Hooker's New Swing

Unread postby xjoeyx » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:51 pm

If your referring to the 6.01 at doha then we have 2 links. pulled these off the thread on the international section.

http://www.universalsports.com/video/as ... pole+vault

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2JtQrZ705o

they're pretty much one in the same.
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