New Mid Mark Chart
Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:46 pm
Link here http://ux1.eiu.edu/~kjellis/ open up the mid mark document. I put 3 different mid points, because I know some people use different ones; also I use shorter ones for short run stuff. I definately use the 6 for longer runs. TO DETERMINE YOUR REACH, TOUCH AS HIGH AS YOU CAN! WHILE STAYING FLAT FOOTED.
Please read my entire post before replying. I have been using DJ's mid mark chart for a while now and I think it is an excellent tool. I am 6ft tall and it worked nearly perfectly for me but it wasn't working for my shorter vaulters. It got me thinking and experimenting with the chart and what I discovered is that the chart worked if you used the athletes optimal takeoff point. After thinking about this more it made more sense to me and seemed very logical.
Here is a link to the new chart I made, find your standing reach and that will determine what column you use. (For example I have a 6ft reach and a 7'10 reach so if I wanted to grip 14ft I can see that I need to takeoff at 11'6, with a mid at 47'6.) There is a lot of numbers and colors, so I would suggest deleting all of the columns that will not apply to you.
I have talked with DJ about the chart and tried explaining why you need to go by takeoff instead of grip to determine ones mid, but to no avail. I'm sure DJ will share his thoughts.
Here are some of the reasons I give that this chart works better than a chart formulated from grip.
1) A 6 ft person gripping 12ft will takeoff almost a foot closer than a 5ft person gripping 12ft, the 6ft person will start with the pole closer to vertical than the 5ft person... So we can determine that the 5ft vaulter will need more force at takeoff to move that grip in; so why would we use the same mid and takeoff for both vaulters??? That seems illogical to me. According to the chart I made their mids will be 4ft different!!!
2) My chart goes along with DJ's Long jump chart, two people taking off from 12ft will need a certain amount of speed to make it into the pit. This is where I am suggesting that height does not play a role. I will use my 6ft and 5ft person example again. If both the 6ft and 5ft person are taking off from 12ft and that is their optimal takeoff point then the SPEED REQUIRED IS THE SAME, TAKEOFF IS THE SAME, the only thing different is that the taller vaulter will be gripping higher.
3) I am also suggesting that speed is the biggest factor in relation to push-off. So how many times have you been at a meet and seen a big tall guy lugging down the runway gripping pretty high, and jumping pretty high even though lacking push-off. Then we see this little guy blazing down the runway but blowing off the top of the pole and jumping the same height even though gripping much lower.... It doesn't mean that the taller guy isn't as efficient technically, he just doesn't have the speed at takeoff to blow off the pole, but he has the reach. Theoretical situation; Scott Huffman and Jeff Hartwig are jumping against each other and both jump 19'6. Jeff is running at 9.7MPS and Scott is running 9.9MPS, who will be gripping higher??? Jeff will. Who is going to push-off more? Scott is. I know that Jeff can probably grip as high or higher from 5lefts than Scott could from 10lefts, and it is not because he is running as fast from 5lefts as Scott is from 10lefts at all!!! SO WE NEED TO THROW SPEED= GRIP OUT!!! AND ADAPT SPEED DETERMINES HOW FAR OUT WE CAN TAKEOFF FROM.
4) Taking the last point If we had a contest to see who would win if we had a competition were everyone had to grip 14ft, the shorter the person the more likely he would be to win... Why?? Because he is going to need more speed to role that grip in than a taller person, and since he has more speed that will aid in his push-off being a lot higher.
5) Last thing, if high school kids were only allowed to grip as high as their speed (mid allowed), then their would be no need for these ridiculous weight rating rules (in my opnion make vaulter more dangerous, by landing short brings the box more into play). Its when kids grip higher than their speed allows that is dangerous, same vise versa; no matter what pole they are jumping on.
Hopefully I have explained it in a way that everyone can understand where I am coming from. It will work better than the old chart, if you are much shorter or taller than 6ft, I guarantee it!! Please leave feed back on what you think.
Please read my entire post before replying. I have been using DJ's mid mark chart for a while now and I think it is an excellent tool. I am 6ft tall and it worked nearly perfectly for me but it wasn't working for my shorter vaulters. It got me thinking and experimenting with the chart and what I discovered is that the chart worked if you used the athletes optimal takeoff point. After thinking about this more it made more sense to me and seemed very logical.
Here is a link to the new chart I made, find your standing reach and that will determine what column you use. (For example I have a 6ft reach and a 7'10 reach so if I wanted to grip 14ft I can see that I need to takeoff at 11'6, with a mid at 47'6.) There is a lot of numbers and colors, so I would suggest deleting all of the columns that will not apply to you.
I have talked with DJ about the chart and tried explaining why you need to go by takeoff instead of grip to determine ones mid, but to no avail. I'm sure DJ will share his thoughts.
Here are some of the reasons I give that this chart works better than a chart formulated from grip.
1) A 6 ft person gripping 12ft will takeoff almost a foot closer than a 5ft person gripping 12ft, the 6ft person will start with the pole closer to vertical than the 5ft person... So we can determine that the 5ft vaulter will need more force at takeoff to move that grip in; so why would we use the same mid and takeoff for both vaulters??? That seems illogical to me. According to the chart I made their mids will be 4ft different!!!
2) My chart goes along with DJ's Long jump chart, two people taking off from 12ft will need a certain amount of speed to make it into the pit. This is where I am suggesting that height does not play a role. I will use my 6ft and 5ft person example again. If both the 6ft and 5ft person are taking off from 12ft and that is their optimal takeoff point then the SPEED REQUIRED IS THE SAME, TAKEOFF IS THE SAME, the only thing different is that the taller vaulter will be gripping higher.
3) I am also suggesting that speed is the biggest factor in relation to push-off. So how many times have you been at a meet and seen a big tall guy lugging down the runway gripping pretty high, and jumping pretty high even though lacking push-off. Then we see this little guy blazing down the runway but blowing off the top of the pole and jumping the same height even though gripping much lower.... It doesn't mean that the taller guy isn't as efficient technically, he just doesn't have the speed at takeoff to blow off the pole, but he has the reach. Theoretical situation; Scott Huffman and Jeff Hartwig are jumping against each other and both jump 19'6. Jeff is running at 9.7MPS and Scott is running 9.9MPS, who will be gripping higher??? Jeff will. Who is going to push-off more? Scott is. I know that Jeff can probably grip as high or higher from 5lefts than Scott could from 10lefts, and it is not because he is running as fast from 5lefts as Scott is from 10lefts at all!!! SO WE NEED TO THROW SPEED= GRIP OUT!!! AND ADAPT SPEED DETERMINES HOW FAR OUT WE CAN TAKEOFF FROM.
4) Taking the last point If we had a contest to see who would win if we had a competition were everyone had to grip 14ft, the shorter the person the more likely he would be to win... Why?? Because he is going to need more speed to role that grip in than a taller person, and since he has more speed that will aid in his push-off being a lot higher.
5) Last thing, if high school kids were only allowed to grip as high as their speed (mid allowed), then their would be no need for these ridiculous weight rating rules (in my opnion make vaulter more dangerous, by landing short brings the box more into play). Its when kids grip higher than their speed allows that is dangerous, same vise versa; no matter what pole they are jumping on.
Hopefully I have explained it in a way that everyone can understand where I am coming from. It will work better than the old chart, if you are much shorter or taller than 6ft, I guarantee it!! Please leave feed back on what you think.