Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby CONNEXE » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:59 pm

It is from a general article I copied from the internet some time ago. According to the pictures the technique is more like Brumel (straight free leg). I also have an old German textbook showing this.

The idea that the free leg is the strong leg is not new. But in long jump or pole vault with approach speeds near 10 m/s an athlete normally can not push strong enough (or rather quickly enough) to lengthen his last stride without losing speed.

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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby KYLE ELLIS » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:42 pm

Renaud always sinks right after takeoff which tells me he is probably trying to grip too high and takeoff too far out. I still can't believe the push-off he obtains because the sink looks very passive.
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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby KirkB » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:13 pm

KYLE ELLIS wrote:Renaud always sinks right after takeoff ...

Just a thought ... maybe he wouldn't sink so much if his last step was shorter? He would be in a better (more upright) position to jump UP then.

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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby kcvault » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:13 pm

I think he sinks because of his tendency to drop his lead knee and double leg swing. The longer last step may slow him down but it is what a power jumper would do to jump up better. Ideally it would be a shorter last step so there would be no loss of speed but a longer one could have it's benefits.

Also if that is what your body is trained to do to jump up it is a very difficult habit to break. In a sport like basket ball you might think of your take off like a spring, in order to load this spring you take a long low step for your take off step in order to maximize the explosive power. Same is typical of a power jumper in the high jump.

Again I think the low take off is more a result of the tendency to drop the lead knee (which can be beneficial in other ways) Either way a very impressive jump for December, from a great athlete and technician.

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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby Pogo Stick » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Some interesting numbers about few Bubka's jumps can be found in this article:
http://www.athleticscoaching.ca/UserFiles/File/Sport%20Science/Biomechanics/Jumping%20Events/Pole%20Vault/Jagodin%20Bubka%20Above%20the%20Bar.pdf

The author is V. Jagodin, another familiar name.
This table shows some numbers for 3 vaults from different periods. As a bonus, it also has pole stiffness in lbs. :-)
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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby Robert schmitt » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:34 pm

pretty big differences in rebound velocity of the pole and velocity of his body rising for 5lb differences in poles
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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby Barto » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:12 am

dj,

Not that I am questioning your powers of estimation, but the 55'6 mid would have been pretty close for Bubka compared to where he generally hit at least in the latter half of his career. I can't speak for 87', but between 93' and 99' he was more of 57' guy. Do you think he "ran himself under" on this particular jump or was he generally closer earlier in his career? Also, do you believe that had he been able to "get them down" faster before takeoff that he would have jumped even higher?

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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby Robert schmitt » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:47 pm

I assume the results are actually in M not 6.01cm and that the grip height below the bar was also in meters. Is the first mark 5.85 or 5.65? If I'm reading this right and the the first mark is 5.85 it put him holding 4.45m, 4.51m and 4.49m for the respective jumps which is about a 4.50m is a 14'8" grip for my metrically impaired mind. Something doesn't see to add up here from his previously reported grips... :confused:
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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby Pogo Stick » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:42 pm

Robert schmitt wrote:I assume the results are actually in M not 6.01cm and that the grip height below the bar was also in meters. Is the first mark 5.85 or 5.65? If I'm reading this right and the the first mark is 5.85 it put him holding 4.45m, 4.51m and 4.49m for the respective jumps which is about a 4.50m is a 14'8" grip for my metrically impaired mind. Something doesn't see to add up here from his previously reported grips... :confused:


The first mark is 5.65m - Bubka's PB in 1983 was 5.72m.
All length and heights are in meters, not centimeters. 6.08cm is just little bit over 2" :-)
5.65, 6.01 and 6.08 are bar heights in meters. There are some errors in data and descriptions (probably lost in translation).
- "Angle height from ground level" should be "grip height from ground level" (grip height minus box depth). Angle cannot be measured in cm or m. So, his respective grip heights will be 4.99m, 5.15m and 5.15m. Comparing to other available data, his grip on the 1986's 6.01 jump was 5.15m.
- "Height of the bar above the grip" cannot be so big. These numbers should be 0.86m, 1.06m and 1.13m respectively.
- in TABLE 2 the results are in meters, not centimeters
- in TABLE3 "Total time" for 5.65 jump should be 1.27, not 2.27

For you, as Robert said, "metrically impaired minds" here is a conversion list of discussed numbers:

Code: Select all

m      ft
5.65   18' 6-1.4"
6.01   19' 8-1/2"
6.08   19'11-1/4"

4.99   16' 4-1/2"
5.15   16'10-3/4"

0.86   2' 9"-3/4"
1.06   3' 5-3/4"
1.13   3' 8-1/2"
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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby Robert schmitt » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:42 pm

It's really interesting that the runway velocity and velocity after take off and grip height are nearly identical for the 6.01 and 6.08 but the max rebound velocity of the pole was 24% greater, the maximal rising velocity of the body was 17.5% greater, and velocity of the body at release of the pole was 77% greater in the 6.08 jump over the 6.01. other then the pole being 5lbs stiffer what is creating these results?
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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby Pogo Stick » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:14 pm

Robert schmitt wrote:It's really interesting that the runway velocity and velocity after take off and grip height are nearly identical for the 6.01 and 6.08 but the max rebound velocity of the pole was 24% greater, the maximal rising velocity of the body was 17.5% greater, and velocity of the body at release of the pole was 77% greater in the 6.08 jump over the 6.01. other then the pole being 5lbs stiffer what is creating these results?


Jagodin says that faster swing is the way to go higher:
However, noticeable changes have taken place
in the velocity of the vaulter’s rotations during the support phase(Table 2). This
is responsible for faster rotational forces that allow to bend a harder pole for a
better catapulting effect as the pole straightens and consequently makes it
possible to clear the bar higher above the grip height.
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Re: Bubka Data 5.85 Meters @1987 IAAF Indoor World Champs.

Unread postby altius » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:30 am

"However, noticeable changes have taken place
in the velocity of the vaulter’s rotations during the support phase(Table 2). This
is responsible for faster rotational forces that allow to bend a harder pole for a
better catapulting effect as the pole straightens and consequently makes it
possible to clear the bar higher above the grip height."

Faster rotation also enabled him to cover the pole more effectively -earlier- and so put him into position for a more vertical drive off the pole - see clip in BTB dvd. Perhaps someone can extract and post this clip????!!!!
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