Big Pole mentality…….

[dj]

Big Pole mentality…….

Hopefully this is a good subject for some serious debate.

Why do vaulters, after clearing (“skying”) a bar at or near their PR “automatically” (no consideration “what so ever” to how the pole they just jumped on worked or functioned, no consideration to how high above the bar they were on that pole, on that jump, no consideration to where their standards were on that vault, yada, yada..) move to a bigger pole, that they very possibly have never used, that they generally don’t have enough speed to bend, have very little chance to move to vertical and have to “try” to force bend!!!!!!!! And this is all done when the vaulter is beginning to get tired at the end of a competition!!???

When the only “logical” excuse for moving up is, “I have to have a bigger pole to jump that high”, or you have to have big poles to “throw” you high!

Look, I can understand the athlete thinking this way, they need to have a little of that “I’m bad, I’m bad, I think I’m bad” In them, but the coach needs to coach to the physics of the event.

I’ll throw this out to try and make my point. Everyone on PVP continually talks about having their best vaults, most efficient vaults, best “height above grip” etc, etc from their short run. Am I right?

Are you on your biggest pole from a short run? Is your height above grip pretty decent from your short run?

I’ll give you a Tully story. He of course had the “big pole mentality”, he said I need the stronger flex so I can feel the stiffness of the pole so I have something to “pull and shoot” high above the grip”.

He jumped 18’4” from his 7 left (14 stride) short approach with a 15-10 grip. He jumped 19-2 with a 16-4 grip. The short run pole was a 14.0 and the long run pole was a 12.5. The “time” of the swing was just about the same.

Both (All) jumps had “pole speed” that took the pole “to” AND beyond vertical.

So what did this tell us?

It told me that the “physics” was in the, Run – Plant and (“two pendulum”) Swing and not in the “catapult” of the pole.

If it was in the “catapult” of the pole the height above grip would always be higher on the “stiffer” pole.

From numerous posts I have seen on here in 4/5 years, many of you need to “rethink” how you have been viewing your great “short run” vaults and the failed attempts you have had trying to move back to a long run.

Coaches we need to start coaching to the “physics” of the event and challenge the athletes to back the run up and “sprint” out of the back and down the runway to vault higher.

If we go back to the “Joe dial, Greg Duplantis” kick butt and take name mentality we will see Bubka’s world record go (to an American) and someone (an American) will push Isi higher or go past her.

Believe it or not if we go back to “physics” (shorten the radius of the pole, move that radius (cord) to vertical and swing as high as possible above the grip) and a fast run the event will become safer. I think if you ask any of the “old timers” that ran fast they will tell you their greatest fear was not coming down in the box it was going “over” the pit.

Long run, “Physics” of the Event and ONE pole “softer” than you think you need.


dj

[bel142]

I disagree, I don't think most vaulters will go up poles right after they smoke a bar. From a competition perspective they may pass bars. But what vaulters do is a very risky sport, there needs to be some form of confidence in all vaulters who are working towards big bars and are working outside their comfort zone. There rea many elite vaulters who can't bump up a hand grip for the next vault to save their mothers. I think there is a general progression to pole choice as time goes on in a competition. As things start to get better and click a little more more pole is needed. I think it is rare that a vaulter would go backward in his/her progression of poles during a competition where conditions are positive.

I have heard accounts of world team coaches who have watched bubka practice say that beucase of the poles he was on, he would hire guys to stand near the front buns with extra matts/pads to catch him if he got stood up or rejected from a pole. They also have seen him take a NH in competition because he would wait for the most perfect conditions on the runway. As every one knows using a tail wind will bump you up some poles. To me that is pretty much throwing everything he had into the vault, and some he didn't have just to get some poles and vaults to work.

I think the same is true with vaulters today, there is not to many people in the world who are griping 17+ feet to vault. Mainly because once people start pressing grip to an extreme without that energy the vault becomes unsafe. And in terms of coaching to physics, it takes the human body and most elite sprinters up to 60 meters until they reach top sprinting speed. 60 meters is just under 197 feet, to be able to still be creating energy at take off and getting a "full Sprint" may not be in the cards, after all vaulters are limited by facilities and the ability to maximize a run while carrying a pole. Most approaches that are used by vaulters are designed to maximize energy at take off effectively and safely.

[vault3rb0y]

If you have ever read the book "deep survival", it describes who lives and who dies in critical situations. It was mostly in the wilderness but it applies to sports as well. Heres the jist...

There were countless stories of extreme sports athletes, regardless of experience level, ignoring signs of possible danger and doing what has given them pleasure in the past. Rock Climbers may feel an adrenaline rush pulling them to keep going despite harsh weather forecasts. White water rafters see a river they have riden many times overflown by floods and surely unsafe, but they go down it anyway. There is no logic, it is simple pavlovian response. Our amygdala overrides our frontal lobe and logic, urging our instincts to repeat the action that has given us pleasure before. In a particular story, Experienced snowmobilers were on a rescue mission after heavy snows. They had specific instructions not to ride up the mountain in that competitive game they play to see who makes it highest before turning back (i dont recall what it is called). There was extreme avalanche danger. At first they did not, but eventually it got too tempting for just ONE person, and he risked it because he had never had a bad reaction before, and everything he knew on a snowmobile told him to do it. Once he did it, others figured it would be ok too. The pull was just too strong. There was an avalanche and several died. This may seem unrelated to sports, but to me it is the exact same thing. It's a difficult thing to put logic behind what we are doing, because our sport requires our amygdala to tell us what to do very quickly. Turning it on and off is tough- its a coaches job to make the logical decisions, because if we coach ourselves, we will only do what has given us pleasure in past experiences. Regardless of circumstances, we listen to that instinct that says "more pole=more fun". Those that can control that instinct and at least use SOME logic and analyses not only make the right decisions on the runway, but they survive in the most extreme conditions.

This has a flip-side. We keep doing what has given us pleasure in the past... then something goes wrong. We go up a pole and it slips out of our hands our shoots us back down the runway. Our mental trial-error system gets skewed, and our bodies no longer know what to expect. We begin to rationalize things out and try to find the cause for what happened, and soon we have a negative image of what happens when you go up a pole. This is why i believe it is crucial to have as many positive experiences with vaulting as possible. A vault SHOULD want to go up a pole, but should be scared to do it without his coaches approval. If you approach the topic of sports psychology and going up poles/longer runs/ etc.... with the knowledge that we like it when things go good and dont like it when things go bad.... it's easy to see how the logic of what to do in certain situations gets thrown.

[baggettpv]

SImple, Go up on poles when the back of the pit becomes too close.... and you don't have enough time to finish the swing..

Rick

[CowtownPV]

I see this all the time with HS vaulters, their rationale is that they couldn't clear the bar on that pole so they need a bigger pole or the person outjumping them is on a bigger pole so they need to be. I don't see it as a big problem with the elites though. Normally when a elite vaulter says they need a bigger pole they know what they are talking about. Maybe they didn't land deep or anything else that would make it obvious but they may know they killed thier swing because the pole was too soft and they were just trying to make the bar on that pole. Thats where a coach has to know his or her vaulter. Some always want to go up and others never want too. The coach who has been through several workouts, and meets with the vaulter will know what is best for their vaulter, not someone sitting in the stands.

[dj]

hye bel,

i don't disagree with what you are saying but i don't think we are taking about the same thing in the same way....

but the point i was and am trying to make is; why do we go up a pole when; we just jumped a bar with ease, bent the pole well but not over bent, just did get the pole to vertical, had air on both sides of the bar and seemly move up poles (4 out of 5 vaulters and 4 out of 5 times with the same vaulter) because the vault "felt" to easy.

over half the time when a vaulter thinks they "blew through" the pole, they only swung past the pole.. it obviously feels the same and it is up to the coach to make the call and teach the vaulter the difference. we don't seem to want to do that. we just want to go bigger..

every girl in the finals at NCAA's that did not move their pole to vertical was on the wrong pole.. first of all for "that" jump.. and if they moved up poles from their last make and didn't get the pole to vertical they definitely should have not gone up a pole period.

dj

[achtungpv]

I agree with Cowtown, it's very bad at the HS level.

Excluding some elites, a vaulter should be able to PR on pretty much any pole in their bag. Pole changes are made based on a combination of many factors (technique, runway speed, wind, etc.) but never bar height.

Example: in '94, Scott Huffman was jumping like crap prior to nationals and left all his "big" poles at home. He set the AR of 19'7" on his small poles..improving his PR by 12cm.

[CowtownPV]

Another reason I say the coach has to know the athlete is because they are young people not machines. Just because the pole didn't make vertical on 2nd attempt doesn't mean you will get the exact same jump on the third attempt. Would it not make coaching easy if the vaulters run, plant, and swing would be exactly the same every time. I have known several vaulters that always hit third attempts harder. Sure if the pole the didn't make vertical it wasn't the right pole for that jump, but how was the coach to know the vaulter was going to be under on that attempt. When the QB throws the ball to a reciever who drops it, its easy to say after the play the QB threw it to the wrong receiver or the coach called the wrong play. Coaching is making tough decesions and anyone who had a girl over 14' at the NCAA's has probably made more good calls than bad. I know none of them went up a pole without seeing something it their vaulter that made them belive they needed a bigger pole. I know they were not like some of my HS kids who say " I can make 14' on this pole but I will need a bigger pole to make 14"6"." Also to go along with what Achtung says my best HS vaulter ever cleared 17' three times in one year, each time on a different pole under different conditions.

[Barto]

At the elite level I see fewer athletes moving up when they shouldn't, but rather too many athletes jumping on poles that are too big for them in the first place. Many elite vaulters never get their poles to vertical on any jump. Over time they develop a technique that allows them to clear bars without ever really moving the pole. This inhibits their long term development.

[Tim McMichael]

I tell all my vaulters that no one jumps high on a big pole. Athletes jump high on the right pole. If a pole ever felt stiff to me, something embarrassing was about to happen. Ideally each pole in the bag should have the same feel and timing, and they should all feel easy to use. The only thing that determines which pole is right should be the conditions the athlete is facing at a given moment. However, the fundamentals of the vault must be sound and consistent for this to be the case.

I cringe every time I hear an athlete bragging about how huge their poles are, as if this were a pole bending contest. I can't stand it when I see a vaulter getting pumped up to try to get on a bigger pole. If you have to get wound up and crazy to plant a pole, it is not the right pole. This is how injuries happen. The vault is not an extreme sport and should not be the refuge of adrenalin junkies. I will not coach an athlete who insists on taking that approach to the sport. For one thing, when I try to help them develop a vault that is utterly safe and basic so the only thing they have to worry about is finding a way around the bar, they are no longer interested.

If an athlete will take one pole smaller than the absolute biggest one they can use and focus achieving a smooth, precise vault, they will be happy with the results.

Also, the highest jumps come when the pole finishes as far past vertical as possible while still leaving room to get around the bar. A wide, deep top end is preferable to a narrow, shallow one. What goes straight up must come straight down.

[vault3rb0y]

I'd say its an adrenaline sport.... but more like a consistent and controlled adrenaline burst for each jump. The more things that change, the worse the jump will be. So getting pumped is good, as long as you understand that you need to use that adrenaline to focus and be controlled, not overly macho and strong.

[Tim McMichael]

I'd say its an adrenaline sport.... but more like a consistent and controlled adrenaline burst for each jump. The more things that change, the worse the jump will be. So getting pumped is good, as long as you understand that you need to use that adrenaline to focus and be controlled, not overly macho and strong.

I am not saying there should be no adrenaline. That wouldn't be any fun. The rush, however, should not come from the sense that what you are doing feels dangerous. There is nothing like standing at the back of the runway with the right pole and the right grip and the right standards with the meet on the line. An athlete whose interest in the sport revolves around putting themselves in that moment of competitive crisis is infinitely more dangerous than someone who is focused on an adrenal rush as an end in itself. (For one thing, they will pick the wrong pole to jump on most of the time.) The best competitors can control their adrenal response and call on it at the right time to aid their competitive effort. Far too many vaulters blow through their limited reserves in warmups and are in the depressed mode that follows when the competition is just getting interesting. That is one of the reasons why is is also a bad idea to make a high bar in warmups.

I was horribly inconsistent in big meets till Greg Duplantis taught me to take my smallest pole out of the bag the night before the meet, hold it in my hands and say, "I can win the meet on this pole." Earl Bell taught me to take the height one progression beneath my PR and say, "Someone else could win this meet with that bar, but I'm not going to let that happen, because I'm going to make it with no misses."