Daddy, just when I think you "got it", you come up with minor mistakes in your analysis. I say minor, becuz I really think that you "got" most of the most important points. You certainly "got it" a lot better than most 3.00 vaulters!
Last things first ...
PVDaddy wrote: Kirk, I was left confused about why You had said that a pull or a push occurs when the bottom arm is engaged in applying pressure to the pole. By definition would it not be more correct to say that a pull or push occurs when the Bottom or top arm applies pressure to the pole?
The title of this thread is "Bottom arm discussion continues...
". On that note, I defined a pull or push in that context. Nothing more.
Keep in mind that I'm only pointing out the picky litle details where I think you go astray here. Generally, I like your analysis!
PVDaddy wrote: ... At plant BOTH arms reach up skyward for the most free take off possible and continue reaching up to move the pole to verticle. By our definition I believe this would be a Push, but again note BOTH hands.
NOT to vertical. Maybe you don't understand what "rotating the pole to vertical" means? It means the motion of the CHORD of the pole from takeoff thru to when it has rotated to a vertical position. Clearly, you do NOT want to reach both arms skyward for this duration!
PVDaddy wrote: ... The left hand (with the left elbow bent) and the right arm stretched up to maximum BOTH impart a load upon the pole and continue to up to the point of Maximum elasticity in the full inverted-C position. Again because this is imparting a forward pressure on the pole even though the arms can only go so far I would still call this a Push ...
You imply that this type of push with the bottom arm (both arms) is proper technique. Altho there's much debate about this ... and there will always be some debate about this ... no one has yet proven that a bottom arm PUSH is essential to bending the pole optimally. In fact, my position is quite the opposite. I assert that (for the most part) the pole is going to bend ... as much as it's going to bend ... due to the speed of the run and takeoff ... DESPITE what you do with the bottom arm (pull, push, or use it just for balance). I say "for the most part" becuz it's actually true that you can get SLIGHTLY more bend out of a pole with bottom arm pressure, but what you gain by this you lose in so many other ways ... so it's inadvisable.
PVDaddy wrote: ... I believe it is important to begin your pull Immediately after complete C and why I am an advocate of the chest leading the take off.
PVDaddy wrote: Both arms are involved throughout the swing, the pull, and the Push so that it does not make sense to talk about one without the other IMMHO.
Well, that's a mouthful, so let's break it down ...
First, this thread is focussed on the bottom arm ... in particular "to push or not to push". Have you read this entire thread for context? So to discuss the bottom arm only here makes perfect sense. You're trying to discuss the entire vault on this one thread, and that's not its intent.
Second, I agree that BOTH arms are involved throughout the SWING. But remember that the SWING should not start until immediately AFTER the pre-stretch. So IMHO, any push, pull, or other bottom arm action PRIOR to the end of the pre-stretch is sub-optimal. Let the top arm do ALL the work (or as much as you have the shoulder strength to do - keeping safety in mind). If you push with the bottom arm ... no matter how little ... you're letting it serve as a shock-absorber ... which leaks energy from the vaulter-pole system. With an "out" takeoff and a good forwards-leaning body angle, the "shock" gets absorbed by the natural second pendulum of your body around the top hand fulcrum.
I've never explained it on PVP in these words before (and you won't have read it anywhere else - this is part of my Bryde Bend model - I know what I felt but I didn't explain it very well), but this is quite an important point. DON'T push and try to force energy INTO the pole, but rather just use the bottom arm for balance, and let the natural SWINGING action of the top arm absorb the shock of the pole hitting the box! The great side-effect of this is that NO ENERGY IS LOST ... and THE SWING GETS AN IMMEDIATE KICK-START as soon as your body is fully stretched. You don't even have to TIME this. It just happens at the right time ... INSTANTLY! Physics looks after all of the timing!
Caveat: You need a very strong top hand/arm/shoulder for this.
Next, the pull. So if that's the pull with both arms as you're transitioning from the backwards C to the forwards C, then I concur full-heartedly.
Last, the push. So if that's the push off the top of the pole, then OK ... whatever. But that point is a little out of context, since this entire thread is about what to do with the bottom arm ON TAKEOFF and immediately AFTER takeoff.
Other than the points I mentioned, I think you're on the right track, Daddy!