PV Technique Help

This is a forum to discuss pole vault technique as it relates to intermediate level pole vaulting.
MLein50
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PV Technique Help

Unread postby MLein50 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:59 am

Hi, I'm new to the site, and am going to be a Junior in High School. My PR is 10 feet. When I vault I cannot row and turn, and do this weird roll over the bar. Could someone help me out with that? And drills for rowing and turning would be welcome as well. I am currently at a PV Camp and the instructor said that is not my problem, rather it is my plant. So I am wondering if my plant really is the problem. Last year I used a UCS Spirit 12'3" 150 and a UCS Spirit 13'7" 150, and now I am using a Pacer FX 13'6 165. I weigh 160 on the dot. Am I just getting used to my new pole or is my plant just weak in general? Also the camp is every Tuesday and Thursday until the end of July. We vaulted yesterday (7/3) because one day was cancelled due to rain.

This link is of my Freshman year, in case anybody wanted to see my technique then

http://mlpolevault.weebly.com/freshman-year.html

This one is my entire Sophomore year, I specifically would like someone to look at the Central League Last Chance Meet 2013 towards the bottom of the page.

http://mlpolevault.weebly.com/sophomore-year.html

This link is of the camp I am at now. Currently we have vaulted two days (Tuesday 7/2 and Wednesday 7/3).

http://mlpolevault.weebly.com/summer-camp.html

MLein50
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Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:42 pm
Expertise: Former High School Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 11'
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Sergei Bubka

Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby MLein50 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:01 am

Also I am a left handed vaulter. And if you know any left handed vaulters, could you list some names so I could watch them.

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larry d
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Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby larry d » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:09 am

One lefty is Stacy Dragilia,the Olympic champion from a few yrs. ago. There's plenty out there of her Jumping. She is coaching Team San Diego now I believe.
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CoachEric
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Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby CoachEric » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:11 pm

You should not be trying to row your hands. Rowing prevents you fom being able to swing.

I can't access your videos, but if your coach is telling you that the probelm is with your plant, he's probably right. Read this. http://artofthevault.com/the-plant-simp ... specified/

MLein50
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World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Sergei Bubka

Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby MLein50 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:26 pm

Yes, I understand that I am not supposed to be rowing with my hands, but I cannot row. I can row and turn on a rope and in a harness, but cannot with my actual vault. So what is preventing me from doing that. I have fixed my plant a lot, but it did not seem to help. I'm thinking about holding higher because I am not getting a lot of bend on where I am holding now. Currently I'm holding my top hand at 11'6" on my Pacer FX 13'6" 160 pole. Also, I feel like I am not getting far enough into the mats.

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Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby CoachEric » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:31 pm

Yes, I understand that I am not supposed to be rowing with my hands, but I cannot row.


So why in the world are you concerned with rowing your hands? It's not correct, so stop trying to do it.

I looked at your video. You're having trouble getting deep into the pit, because you are pulling. You should be trying to stay as extended as possible and swing long to the back of the pit. You should never try to raise your grip if you're having trouble landing deep.

Practice landing as deep in the pit as possible by keeping a very extended body. Only after you are landing in the back of the pit easily should you raise your grip.

MLein50
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Favorite Vaulter: Sergei Bubka

Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby MLein50 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:53 pm

So why in the world are you concerned with rowing your hands? It's not correct, so stop trying to do it.


First off I want to thank you for actively trying to help me. Second, are telling me not to row at all or just not with my hands? Is there a difference? My coach always just told me that I need to row, because it will initiate the turn and I will not roll over the bar. He never told me that there was a wrong way to row. A link on how to row correctly would be greatly appreciated. Third, to get deeper into the pit I just need to stop pulling and push more correct? Fourth, I was thinking about raising my grip because I am not really bending my pole. But it seems as if I should fix all this other stuff, especially to stop pulling, before I should raise my grip. Any more pointers would be helpful. Thanks again.

CoachEric
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Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby CoachEric » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:07 pm

Rowing is always wrong. It stops the rotation of the pole into the pit, and it stops your body from swinging. Instead, focus on keeping the hands high throughout the vault, and swing deep into the pit.
http://artofthevault.com/articles/two-s ... h-or-pull/

Get deep into the pit consistently, and then you can start to raise your grip by very small increments.

MLein50
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Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:42 pm
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Favorite Vaulter: Sergei Bubka

Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby MLein50 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:41 pm

Okay. From what I read on that page. I know in my mind what to do, now I just have to execute. I will post more videos after camp tomorrow. Any suggestions for drills on how to push farther into the pit. I'm guessing just simple ones like one handed and two handed drills?

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souleman
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Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby souleman » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:07 am

Let's start from the beginning. First of all you need to improve your run up start, run up and pole carry. You're leaning forward when you run which shifts your hips(pelvis) down toward the ground so you're not running tall or having any chance of reaching maximum velocity as well as this run puts you in an impossible position for a decent pole drop and plant. Your pole drop is too late because you are not starting it at your 6 step. It's 1-2-3-plant-2-3. Plant is off to the left so you've got no good take off positioning. Bad take off positioning kills any opportunity for a swing and with out a swing there is no pole cover and thus the need for a turn is moot. If you spent the rest of camp getting your run, pole drop, plant and take off better it would be the best use of your time. Lots of work in the sand pit doing plant drills. Listen, from what I saw on the video if you're doing 10 feet you are SUPERMAN! If you love this event as I'm guessing you do, work on those little things that make the jump better. It's like Alan Launder says, "it's not doing something extraordinarily well it's doing the simple things (all the links in the chain) extraordinarily well". This event is like a big chain with the links representing each piece of the jump. If one part is weak that means that several links before it are also weak. You must correct those earlier links before the big obvious one. Finally, get the book and the DVD Beginner to Bubka and Isinbayeva too. If you can't afford both then get the DVD and do all of the drills in it. You do that and your jump will improve greatly. Good luck.
Mike

MLein50
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Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:42 pm
Expertise: Former High School Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 11'
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Sergei Bubka

Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby MLein50 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:55 pm

Another day down of camp. New videos were uploaded to the summer camp link in my first post.

I really tried to focus on two things: 1. Pushing instead of Pulling and 2. Standing up straight when I run.

Instead, focus on keeping the hands high throughout the vault, and swing deep into the pit. Get deep into the pit consistently, and then you can start to raise your grip by very small increments.


This didn't turn out quite as planned. No matter how hard I told myself to push, pulling is locked into my muscle memory. I did however feel myself push more than I usually do on my 2nd jump of the day (my first one at 13'). And correct me if I'm wrong but the only way to get rid of the muscle memory is just practice, practice, practice. So that will take a while.

First of all you need to improve your run up start, run up and pole carry. You're leaning forward when you run which shifts your hips(pelvis) down toward the ground so you're not running tall or having any chance of reaching maximum velocity as well as this run puts you in an impossible position for a decent pole drop and plant. Your pole drop is too late because you are not starting it at your 6 step. It's 1-2-3-plant-2-3. Plant is off to the left so you've got no good take off positioning.


I really felt like at times I ran tall, but at other times I bent down again. I think this can be a quick fix with more practice. I noticed on some of my jumps my plant was to the left, but on others it was in the middle. I also take 7 steps not 6. Is there any way to make me plant in the middle more?

I also really think I need to hold higher... The pole I am using now is just really stiff. Sure I probably could have cleared some heights if I turned, but I'm just trying to push more and not pull so that is why I just stopped myself. On Tuesday when we have camp again, I'm going to move up on my pole slowly (about 2-3 inches at a time). One of my friends at camp tried out my pole today from where I was holding it and did the same things I do. He later tried holding it higher and cleared 10'6". It is just a really, really stiff pole.

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souleman
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Re: PV Technique Help

Unread postby souleman » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:55 pm

Where do you live? (What part of the country are you in)? You need to find the closest Alan Launder clinic to you and go to it. There are so many things that you need to fix if you want to excel at this event. Attending one of his clinics will get you the tools that you will need to do things right in this event. Tools that I'm afraid that you just aren't getting now. You hit the nail on the head when you said the part about practice practice practice. Key thing here is you need to practice the different stages of the vault correctly (200 to 1000 times each stage) for it to change muscle memory that will benefit your jump. I'm worried that without BTB2 and the DVD or a coach that understands the concept and the model for teaching the model you'll be doing things that will be incorrect and will hurt your jumping rather than help it. I hope I will never read a post from you again that says your pole is too stiff until you can run correctly, drop the pole correctly, plant correctly, take off correctly and turn correctly, EVERY TIME, . You're far from being able to utilize a bending pole right now. All that will do is cover up bad technique and where you may gain a little you'll never be able to get past that small gain and go to the next level because your technique won't allow it. Now keep in mind that you don't work at each one of the stages I mentioned all at the same time. That's impossible and not effective. You work on each one separately beginning with the top of the runway and cover each stage as it progresses toward the pit until you have it mastered. Because you take a lot of video you can compare yourself to videos of Bubka. If you look like Bubka during each stage then you've got it and move on to the next one. Every drill your need to do is spelled out in the book and shown on the DVD. Now the book does you absolutely no good if you don't open it and read it. Here's an example for you. Two in fact. Isinbayeva does 20 to 50 walking plant drills before every training session. Bubka use to have a pole leaned up against the wall outside of his apartment and when he left the house or entered it he did 50 plant drills. So if the best in the world insist on doing these mundane drills, you can to. In this event there is no magic bullet. You can't just keep running at a cross bar with a pole in your hand and expect to get better. It just won't happen. I apologize for being a little hard on you, but based on your responses you're still trying to build a house without a hammer and nails and 2 X 4's. There are no short cuts. I'd be interested to hear more about this camp you're going to. Is it an "open pit" set up or is it a clinic type camp with a coach running a structured program. That might help me help you a little more. Please don't get discouraged by anything I have written. I'd rather see you learn how to do this right than see you make 11' jumping crappy. Learn how to do it right and 10' will be so far in you rear view mirror it'll be silly. Continue on the path you're going and it will become your best friend because you will be spending a lot of time there. Good luck
Mike


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