Using Bottom Hand Pressure

[KirkB]

As for the tap, I do not even touch the vaulter unless something goes heywire. I always want to be there to try and protect my vaulters.... Safety first right!?

Altius and I don't always agree on everything, but one thing we do agree on is that coaches shouldn't tap their vaulters - for exactly the reasons he explained.

We also may disagree on minor "style" differences in the Petrov Model from time to time, but for the most part, we both believe that following the Petrov Model - as described in the BTB2 book - is the quickest and best way for a young coach like yourself to become a good, competent coach.

It actually just occurred to me that MAYBE the basis of your arguments re why you force the bend with the bottom arm is because you're not off the ground when you do this! If your takeoff foot is still planted on the ground when you apply this pressure, the physics are totally different because you now have the leverage of "prying" the pole with the bottom arm, with the force being applied by your foot ON THE GROUND.

If this is the case, then it still doesn't make your arguments any BETTER re why you think a bottom arm push is a good thing - it just makes the arguments DIFFERENT.

I made this assumption on the basis of thinking that you were doing and coaching a free takeoff - something that Altius and I both assume to be sound, basic Petrov technique. But if you're under by as much as you say you're under, then of course you're not going to have a free takeoff.

There's another whole series of threads written in the last 5 or so years on PVD re "free takeoff" and "free take off". Search for those terms, and I'm sure you'll find hundreds of hits.

Happy reading!

Kirk

[Chaebo]

I do attempt to coach attempt to have my vaulters use a free take-off. I myself always believed in a free take-off but had issues with the step and developed a comfort of being under. (Which I always knew to be a major flaw in my jump.) I have recently been trying to learn as much about the 6 stride middle mark as possible and have been debating on whether to change that NOW or in a few weeks (3) once the season. Has finished. My vaulters step (at the plant) being pretty consistant can range a bit from time to time from about a foot out to 3 inches under (Out more often than not). So, I am happy to say he is much better than I am about it.

I do however have a first year vaulter how ever who has a tendancy to often be up to a foot under. Who Push Plants (PROBABLY GONNA RIP ME ON THIS ONE ) But, she does know how to carry but is new very hesitant when doing so and due to potential to make a state appearance in her first season I do not want to refrain her from doing so by trying to make a major change in such a short period. (I was away at college so 50% of there season has been without any help. Except video reviews I would give them from time to time.)

And I was doing exactly as you were implying I was "PRYING" off the ground with my foot planted. So much so it became instinct and I very rarely had my step with in 3 inches of being on. So we always adjusted my step to compensate at the box and I knowing I wasn't comfortable and could feel an alteration in my steps through the approach to compensate for this change. (Which is why I want to integrate the 6 stride mid mark.)

So back to the tap, It is also something I am aware I do. And always have been aware that there have been negatives but on a scale of pros vs cons I was never aware of the magnitude of errors that could occur with the tap. Again this is something I was taught with that I implemented into my own teaching. And honestly I hate doing it because I can not get a good evaluation of my vaulters jump from being so close to the run way.

Also, Altius I have contacted you about attempting to come to one of your clinics but I am unfortunately not very close and would like to accompany my vaulters to a clinic. I would also like to hear about those flaws and cracks in my jumper you are talking about. (A person has got to develop an eye for those correct.) I am aware of many of his flaws but reasurrance is a great motivator. And I'm sure with your level of expertise you could pick up on many things I may not have.

[KirkB]

So back to the tap, It is also something I am aware I do. And always have been aware that there have been negatives but on a scale of pros vs cons I was never aware of the magnitude of errors that could occur with the tap. Again this is something I was taught with that I implemented into my own teaching. And honestly I hate doing it because I can not get a good evaluation of my vaulters jump from being so close to the run way.

Some habits are hard to break. Like being "under" or even pressing with the bottom hand. But some habits are so dirt simple to fix, they should be done right away.

So if you "hate" tapping, then why not stop it immediately? Step back about 5-10 steps and get a better view of your vaulters as they jump. You will get a much better view of what their vault looks like from 5-10 steps back.

How about it?

Kirk

[Chaebo]

Already, working on it. Gonna try to get out of it without my vaulters even noticing i'm there. SO FAR SO GOOD. Also, my vaulter since we have done some vaulting without using bottom hand pressure in the past did well with the concept today and was able to jump from a full approach without the use of the bottom arm. (Starting from 3 steps working our way up to the pole and run way to 6 lefts) I do have a first week vaulter who I couldn't bring myself to step away from much but did attempt to refrain from even touching her throughout the vault but was happy to see her completing 8ft. Jumps without any assistance.

The vaulter was able to match his performance of 13'6 on a 14' rather than using a 14'7 but our standards were at 80' so we will be attempting to move the hand grip up to the 14'7's soon. I am fortunate to have a hard working a trusting group and was very lucky that this vaulter in the videos is catching on quickly.... I must thank you KirkB and you as well Altius. I can not say we had a miracle at practice by any means but a very successful practice to say the least.

If I had video, of practice I would have shown you. Over all almost every jump he was able to get to the position or slightly better than in the video I posted earlier about his best inversion but He had one vault in particular that his hips swung up to cover the pole instead of becoming stuck in his swing. He felt the sensation so hopefully we will be able to recreate this

You have made a believer out of me. Thank You again.

[altius]

Just a thought -I doubt the distance you are away from any of the clinics on offer is not remotely as far as OZ/Poland/Germany/Italy or even the USA -that is the travelling I have had to do -often with a group of my athletes - to begin to get a handle on this event. You would learn more in two days than you will in a year on pvp - great resource though it is.

[Chaebo]

I found a forum with the list posted of camps posted and I do not think that I am financially set to travel from Ohio to Oregon. If I were i would be there in a heart beat. But, I will definitely look into the camps that you told me about previously in the surrounding states. If something changes (such as I come into a small fortune ) I will do what ever i can to get there. I am also going to look into some type of fundraising for the program as well.