Who needs a pole vault coach?

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CB550
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby CB550 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:01 am

What you are looking for doesn't exist in Illinois, in HS, and honestly in most collegiate settings. Pole Vaulting is not just for the vaulters who are have state potential. Pole vaulting is an event in track and field inwhich "Kids" get an opportunity to participate. It has to be fun, and an enjoyable experience for kids to eventually improve and reach a high level. Remember, (and it took me a while to understand this when I was a young coach) not everyone is like you. Not every kid wants to train like you did, is as fast as you were, or are as focused as you are on being good. And you know what? That is OK. Some kids don't care about going to state, or being a champion. They participate in vauting because it is fun. Many lessons in life can be learned through participating in pole vauiting.

Most of the vaulters in Illinois make up the "Vault for Fun" catagory, and are not really interested in working to be a champion (as most people view a champion). They come to practice, have fun, learn some things about themselves and then eventually become teachers, coaches, accountants, Doctors, etc. If they had a good vaulting experience in HS, then they will eventually produce more pole vauiters (high percentage of parent vaulters and offspring vaulters), and that will continue to strengthen the sport we all enjoy.

I understand what you want, but if you intend to develop good vaulters you will have to develop patience. If you are lucky, one of these days, if you put in your time, you will run across someone who has the physical potential, and the other attributes that you are looking for. However, this may take some time. Keep woking at it, and in time things could start swinging your way.

Remember... Some vaulters need pole vaulitng more than pole vauitng needs them. And... that is just fine.

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:17 am

Perhaps you guys are misinterpreting how athletic I want these kids to be.

http://polevaultpower.com/petrovcharts.php

According to Petrov a 13 second 100m runner is capable of jumping ~13-9. That's good enough for me. I think I'm allowed to be somewhat selective in who I want to jump for me, every other event is. I have about 12 vaulters right now and only cut 1 or 2 based on physical reasons. One was about 200 lbs and very slow, and the other was just far too weak and uncoordinated. In an ideal world I would be able to help all these kids reach their potential but unfortunately due to time constraints and other factors I cannot.

@CB550, I know that I'm not going to get an entire group of dedicated kids, and I don't demand that they make pole vaulting the focal point of their lives. I do ask that they give me their full attention from 3-6 everyday though. If there is a kid who wants to go above and beyond then I will be more than happy to help them in that endeavor, and that kid would be the main reason I wanted to coach.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby CB550 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:51 am

I agree that all kids don't belong in the event. If a kid is not in good conditions then there are some safety concerns. I have on occassion used physical tests to determine who gets the opportunity to compete. I have never limited practice time, but requiring a kid to be at a certain strength level before competing is a good idea. I've used pull ups as a test. Of couse it is against the rules in the IHSA to have kids vault below there body weight ,so that is a test in and of itself. 12 vaulters seems like a lot of vaulters, but I've heard of more wanting to try vaulting in practice. 12 is the outer limit on productivity in practice, and most sessions are best keep to 6 vaulters. I have run 2 jump sessions during practice. Session 1 (group of 6) is from 3:30-?, and Session 2 is from ?-?. I'm sure you already do stuff like that, but I've found the strength test as a good way to thin out the vaulters who are really runners who are trying to get out of running. :^) I've been doing this a long time, and if I can help you, let me know. Good Luck.

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:11 pm

My vaulters always have to do the running workout, usually before they can vault, later in the season they might vault first then run. That has been effective in weeding out the kids who are just trying to get out of running. In my current situation, I would probably not allow any girls to vault who weigh over 140, and boys over 165 (ideally 175, but I don't have many big poles down here), that is based solely on what poles I have an our ability to meet the rules.

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby altius » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:04 pm

"Trust is built on sound relationships which begin with friendship and respect for each other, not on knowledge of the activity." There are thousands of studies that confirm that this underpins success in almost every profession - and certainly the helping professions of which coaching is one. That is why I suggested a humanities course. It might also expose you to the thousands of stories of teachers and coaches around the world working in terrible conditions to try to help kids have a better life through an involvement in sport. But hey - you just carry on feeling sorry for yourself and blaming everything but yourself if it makes you feel good.

Since it is clear that you are not taking any of the advice you have been given - from anyone - on board, there is little point in continuing this so dont bother on my account. Instead you just carry on debating the importance of run up speed to vaulting - you obviously think that is of more value than the feedback you got here.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:36 pm

altius wrote:"Trust is built on sound relationships which begin with friendship and respect for each other, not on knowledge of the activity."


Ah, no wonder Bobby Knight is the winningest coach in college basketball history. He is known for his friendliness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw7KijRfU-c

There is more than one coaching style, and a lot of people have achieved great coaching success who didn't care about being their athletes' best friend (Bobby Knight, Herb Brooks, practically every football coach ever except Dick Vermeil, etc.). And as far as I can tell I never said I didn't like all my kids. Just the ones who don't show up to practice, have criminal records, or call me a crackerass mother***. The ones who show up everyday and want to get better I do everything I can to help. They get out of me what they put in.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:39 pm

rainbowgirl28 wrote:My vaulters always have to do the running workout, usually before they can vault, later in the season they might vault first then run. That has been effective in weeding out the kids who are just trying to get out of running.


This is a good idea, I may use that in the future.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:45 pm

CB550 wrote:I agree that all kids don't belong in the event. If a kid is not in good conditions then there are some safety concerns. I have on occassion used physical tests to determine who gets the opportunity to compete. I have never limited practice time, but requiring a kid to be at a certain strength level before competing is a good idea. I've used pull ups as a test. Of couse it is against the rules in the IHSA to have kids vault below there body weight ,so that is a test in and of itself. 12 vaulters seems like a lot of vaulters, but I've heard of more wanting to try vaulting in practice. 12 is the outer limit on productivity in practice, and most sessions are best keep to 6 vaulters. I have run 2 jump sessions during practice. Session 1 (group of 6) is from 3:30-?, and Session 2 is from ?-?. I'm sure you already do stuff like that, but I've found the strength test as a good way to thin out the vaulters who are really runners who are trying to get out of running. :^) I've been doing this a long time, and if I can help you, let me know. Good Luck.


I would love to employ a method like this but I have no authority on the track team. Whoever the head girls and guys track coaches send me I need to use. I have almost no say in who my vaulters are. And 12 isn't that much. 3 varsity guys, 3 varsity girls, 3 frosh/soph guys, 3 frosh/soph girls. But when you have to train them all at once and they are all at different skill levels, then it does get hard. I'm not able to delegate either because if I tell some to run while I work with a different group, the kids I told to run won't do it. I have to babysit everyone all the time. It's a nightmare.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby CB550 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:59 pm

I was pretty much were you are, 25 years ago. There is no easy answer, other than diligence, patience and time. Eventually if you play your cards right, you may get a chance to have some say so in the way things are done. As is usually the case, I'm sure you only get the pit a couple times a week. Just know that most all coaches in the Chicagoland area are dealing with the same issues.

There are some very good HS coaches in the Chicagoland area who have delt with these condition effectively. Over the past 10-20 years there are several HS programs that have got the job done on a consistent basis with similiar restrictions. Plainfield South, Plainfield Central, Naperville Central, Lake Park, Rolling Meadows, Wheaton Warrenville South, Geneva, Lincoln Way Central, Lincoln Way East and I know I've left out some others, so I hope they don't get ticked.

These programs have, for the most part had coaches who've stayed with the program for a number of years. Pole selection is built up over years, and most of these schools most likely have a pretty good pole selection. Pole selection is essential, and sometimes is the determining factor on who vaults the highest. I know that most of the schools listed are some of the healthier, financially speaking, but I know most of those coaches personally, and they have sunk their own dollars into the poles for the kids. Fund Raising for poles is a good idea. How about the booster club? I know of coaches who have run summer meets and camps with profits going to poles. Pole selection is one issue that you do have some control over if you put in some time.

I get the whole Bobby Knight thing. Heck, he was one of my favorite coaches back when he was at Indiana. However... as much as I believe he was out to help kids graduate, etc. His delivery (although I believe sometimes orchestraed) is not appropriate, regardless of how effective it was in back in the days of old. That cannot happen now days, and honestly there are many kids that just can't deal with that stuff. Those days are gone, and I'm thankful for it. One day (I'm assuming you don't have childeren of your own) when you have your own children, and they particapate in competitive sports, your idea about the Bobby Knight Style of coaching may change.

The mentality of the Bobby Knight kind of coach I get, and like. The delivery is inappropriate, and isn't making young men stronger. If you want to know what coaching philosophy is all about regardless of the sport or event, listen to Al Carius (North Central College Hall of Fame Track and Cross Country Coach) speak when you get a chance. Al has dramatically impacted 1000's of athletes, with his "Run of Fun and Personal Bests" philosophy over the past 40 years. Al's winning record speaks for itself. Never heard the man use a foul word.

Good Luck.

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby CB550 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:12 pm

Oops! Chicago Heights Bloom has had a great vault program for Decades. Tim Johnson has brought that program back in a big way. Tim was a great vautler and is now a great vault coach.

Phil Coat (retired from PV coaching in 2009) has coached many state qualifiers and one State Champion at two different high schools. Phil was a knowledgable coach, but his biggest strength was that the kids just like being around him. He was a fun guy, who kept everything light hearted while tricking them into vaulting high. We was a Glenbard South for years before moving to Plainfield Central and finally getting a State Champion.

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby Tincup1215 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:32 pm

ya mention Geneva and not Kaneland? Besides that I agree with CB. Your situation is not going to change overnight. Gotta play the hand your dealt even if it is a crappy hand

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby baggettpv » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:57 am

I think I would use an ITIP basis of instruction blended with A Sheltered Instruction style of presentation.

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