Peaking at the big meets

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grandevaulter
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby grandevaulter » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:03 pm

Great video. Thank you for posting it.

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altius
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby altius » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:39 pm

Let me repeat that I think this girl is exceptional - and I am not sure when we will see another who learns as quickly. We have another girl with similar ability but she has yet to master the technical elements I focussed on with Maddie. i think the key has been her commitment to train on a regular basis and her willingness to persist with the repetitive drills we use - probably her experience in basketball has helped here.

However I am pleased that the principles we have presented are being successfully applied by other coaches. The great thing is that as your athletes improve they become models for the next generation and this will make your task much easier. Its all very well showing youngsters film of Isinbayeva et al but they are more likely to be influenced by their slightly older squad members. It becomes "If he/she can do that - I can do that - better!!" In this way you build the technical model into your culture - at least that has been our experience.

I am considering producing a DVD based on Maddie, confirming exactly how simple the process is. However I would have to charge something to cover the costs and of course - shock horror - advertise it on PVP! Not sure I can face the opprobrium - what a lovely word -from our resident experts who don't seem to like simple ideas being promulgated - another lovely word. ;)
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

grandevaulter
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby grandevaulter » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:58 pm

altius wrote:However I am pleased that the principles we have presented are being successfully applied by other coaches. The great thing is that as your athletes improve they become models for the next generation and this will make your task much easier. Its all very well showing youngsters film of Isinbayeva et al but they are more likely to be influenced by their slightly older squad members. It becomes "If he/she can do that - I can do that - better!!" In this way you build the technical model into your culture - at least that has been our experience.


I believe this to be true. My kids see their unorthodox competition in the meets and start to believe in the BTB2 simple drills as they succeed in clearing heights with better technique. I'll show them Maddie's video and I expect that we can clean a few thing up.

altius wrote:I am considering producing a DVD based on Maddie, confirming exactly how simple the process is. However I would have to charge something to cover the costs and of course - shock horror - advertise it on PVP


I'll support this.

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KirkB
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:28 pm

altius wrote: I am considering producing a DVD based on Maddie, confirming exactly how simple the process is. However I would have to charge something to cover the costs and of course - shock horror - advertise it on PVP! Not sure I can face the opprobrium ... from our resident experts who don't seem to like simple ideas being promulgated ...

I don't think you should be too shy about charging a fair price for producing a good vid. And I don't think you should be too hesitant about advertising it on PVP.

If what you are proposing is along the same lines as how you've dropped hints about certain info being in your BTB2 book (you could quote the minutes/seconds on the vid of a certain technique in much the same way that you quote chapters or page #s in BTB2), then that's something that (IMHO) readers of this forum will be interested in.

I assume your vid will be a compilation of her progress over the season? That'll be good. It will encourage other young aspiring vaulters to realize that 'if she can do it, I can do it'! But maybe more importantly, it will also inspire PV coaches. :star:

I think there's a huge difference between outright spam, and the extent to how you've mentioned your book in your posts. You're not even close to spam - don't let the pundits annoy you so much. You've given very generously of your time and knowledge, and I think your proposed DVD will be well-received by us readers.

I do have a suggestion for you though: charge for the DVD (including your voice-over comments of what she's doing right or wrong and why), but then allow (for free) any clarifications in this forum to readers' questions. This will be helpful, and will promote the vid at the same time - without sounding too commercial. If any pundits don't like it, then they can produce their own vid with their own athletes! :D

This is actually what you've done for your entire BTB2 book over the past decade, and I think it's a good way of supplementing paid material with free explanatory information.

One other thought: DVDs are getting to be a bit old-fashioned. If you could devise a means to download your vid for a fee (being careful not to get ripped off - outlawing re-publishing on youtube or elsewhere), then you might sell more copies. Just a thought.

Go for it! :yes:

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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altius
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby altius » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:07 pm

"One other thought: DVDs are getting to be a bit old-fashioned. If you could devise a means to download your vid for a fee (being careful not to get ripped off - outlawing re-publishing on youtube or elsewhere), then you might sell more copies. Just a thought."

Thanks Kirk -but remember that I am technologically challenged -just catching up with Beta tapes! So I suspect it will be a dvd -produced with Sean Browns help probably - but I will see what we can do with the interactive idea - it is a good one!
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

kmonty51
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby kmonty51 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:35 pm

Thanks for taking the time to offer your advice, everyone! I guarantee all of it will be read and utilized.
"How old would ya be if ya didn't know how old ya was?" - Satchel Paige

grandevaulter
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby grandevaulter » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:40 pm

altius wrote:I made my position pretty clear in BTB and it has worked at every level from beginner up for many years. Stabilise the run up
:yes:
altius wrote:we decide what it will be when we start our preliminary training about a month after the previous nationals and we stay with it throughout the season AND WE NEVER CHANGE - FOR REASONS THAT SHOULD BE PRETTY OBVIOUS. We go with either 12 or 16 and do not mess with the number of steps once we have decided with a specific athlete.

:yes:
altius wrote: We practIce that run up every week of the year!

This is a great piece of advice. In chapter 16 you also give the appropriate drills and instruct us to move our vaulters out on the track and do the approach and take off foot test. This is really great information.

altius wrote: Incidentally this is all in BTB but I suspect the chapters on the run up often get by passed as folk look for the magic secrets of the inversion - if you like I will post the specific chapter and the 'experts' can dissect it.

Chapter 16 the run up. The inversion is in chapter 15. ;)

Monty, I suggest you don't waste your time reading the posts in this forum but read chapter 16, take your young athletes out to the track and " thoroughly" help them do the drills.

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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby KirkB » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:32 pm

grandevaulter wrote: Monty, I suggest you don't waste your time reading the posts in this forum but read chapter 16, take your young athletes out to the track and " thoroughly" help them do the drills.

:yes:
This is great advice!

I think the reason the inversion is introduced in the chapter BEFORE the run up is not actually to teach it first, but to explain why it should NOT be taught first.

As would Alan Launder, I would much rather coach a vaulter the fundamentals of a good run first, and THEN work on a good plant, takeoff, and swing ... in that order.

That's because having a good swing is near impossible without preceding it with a good run, plant, and takeoff. And if there's a flaw detected in the swing, it's invariably traced back to a flaw in a precedent part of the vault.

Best order to read and execute (now that you know WHY the inversion was introduced before the run up):

Chapter 13: Teaching the pole vault
Chapter 14: Learning to vault on a flexible pole
Chapter 16: Young athletes and the run up
Chapter 15: Teaching the inversion

Also, don't forget ...

Chapter 24: The run up for ambitious young vaulters
Chapter 25: The plant
Chapter 26: The Take Off
Chapter 27: Ambitious young vaulters and the swing into inversion

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

kmonty51
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby kmonty51 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:13 pm

Ha! Too late on the posts...I've already read 'em (and I don't think a waste of my time); however, I do strongly agree with you about reading the chapters in BTB. I've actually done that, and will again. Going back to the original question, ... beyond proper preparation in the fundamentals, how do coaches who consistently tend to fare well with their vaulters in the big meets approach them (vaulters and meets)? With your thoughts regarding having the vaulter take more ownership in the decision-making process, Kirk, I watched and listened closely to some top-notch coaches at our state meet yesterday. (I was fortunate to be able to spectate right next to the coaches' box because the event got moved indoors due to stormy weather). I heard a lot of questions directed at the vaulters that did exactly what you suggest. "What do YOU want to do?" or similar was asked of the vaulter several times, especially regarding standard settings and pole selection. The coaches provided input, but within reason, gave the vaulters the freedom to make decisions for themselves. I'm sure that has come from more than one year of working with the vaulter, teaching him/her to coach themselves a bit, and of course teaching them proper fundamentals in proper order.
"How old would ya be if ya didn't know how old ya was?" - Satchel Paige

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KirkB
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby KirkB » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:13 pm

kmonty51 wrote: ... I watched and listened closely to some top-notch coaches at our state meet yesterday. (I was fortunate to be able to spectate right next to the coaches' box because the event got moved indoors due to stormy weather). I heard a lot of questions directed at the vaulters that did exactly what you suggest. "What do YOU want to do?" or similar was asked of the vaulter several times, especially regarding standard settings and pole selection. The coaches provided input, but within reason, gave the vaulters the freedom to make decisions for themselves. I'm sure that has come from more than one year of working with the vaulter, teaching him/her to coach themselves a bit, and of course teaching them proper fundamentals in proper order.

:yes:
And at the collegiate level, you will see even more of a 'hands-off' coaching style on meet day (but very hands-on during practice).

The prerequisite, of course, is that the vaulters KNOW themselves and what's best for themselves.

You'll get the odd coach that yells out way too much from the stands (more than the vaulter can absorb or use), but then they're probably not the BEST coaches.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

grandevaulter
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Location: South West, MI

Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby grandevaulter » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:07 pm

I think we worked harder at approach/pole carry drills starting in January. See my post on 20/20 drill in this forum and a question that I had regarding proper execution of this drill. I nudged my vaulters to move up poles two weeks before our regional/state qualifier meet. I remind them that they have worked for this and it is their time.

I had one gal that I moved up a pole that wasn't penetrating and moved her back down, with the understanding that she would get moved back up by the state meet. (Some require more of a nudge than others) This was all understood and rehearsed. The only unknown was the standard placement, which moved back on each of her three ending misses. If she had a fourth, I would have moved them back farther.

My head coach enters us in enough "big meet" invitationals throughout the season. Our kids are ready for that big meet atmosphere. I tell the kids that if they do it my way and it doesn't work, blame me. If they do it their way, they own it.

kmonty51
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Re: Peaking at the big meets

Unread postby kmonty51 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:08 am

I just received the news about Alan Launder's (Altius) passing. I had to go back and reread his posts/teaching on this thread. Not long after this thread ended, I got to discuss some of his advice face-to-face during a camp in Mpls. He didn't pull any punches, but was so willing to help any and all who wanted to get better. I will miss seeing his posts on PVP, and the occasional laugh I had when he would make an emphatic point in his not always politically correct way! After being at his camp (two of them, actually), I'll never again be able to hear, "You dumb bunny!" without thinking of him with respect and fondness. RIP Alan...you were one of the great ones.
"How old would ya be if ya didn't know how old ya was?" - Satchel Paige


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