Approach run misconception.

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fishman4god
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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:05 am

I agree. We need to treat pole vault like gymnastics. Year round training for success progress and consistency. Olympians train all year. So should all athletes for maximum success. But alas the resources are not readily available to accomplish this.

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby dj » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:10 pm

by grandevaulter » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:11 am

Practice ( doing the same thing over and over) is the key to the approach. I've watched the kids hit the mid and miss the take off. I've seen them miss the mid by a foot and hit the take off step. I've watched the state champions in our division starting with a 10 and no mid beat the kids coached with the 12 and the mid. I'm sure there is a place for dj's approach. I have watched and listened to the rhythm of the approach. Listening to the rhythm can be as effective as assigning an assistant to the mid. High school kids that jump 4 months a year are not "typically"going to benefit from this mid chart. I really appreciate the time and thought put into this.


i think you are actually missing HOW and WHY it is used... also what mid is being checked.. 4 or six steps?

i have seen all the things you mentioned above...and my point is……. they are all reason to correlate with a 6 step "MID" not a reason to dismiss it...

dj

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:38 pm

DJ I happen to agree with you and the 6 step mid methodology....................however some others just do not agree.......and that is fine too. I don't think that "they do not understand", They just don't agree with you're science/opinion. No disrespect just different points of view.

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby dj » Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:57 pm

hello

I actually don't have any problem when someone "disagrees" with me, I like when questions are raised and love the opportunity to work through to a correct answer and IF that disagreement leads better vaulting.

I do get frustrated when the "disagreement" is not based in science or on actual unbiased research.

We continue to have "unsound" coaching techniques "floated" from one coach to the next … based on "prejudice" and/or who your "favorite" person is…. and not in fact.

dj

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby dj » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:35 am

good morning,

congrats to the women finalist.....

today during the prelim, would have been a perfect opportunity for the "science' of the six step "MID" to have been check.. based on good jumps and bad jumps. and then check the "MID" again, as i did in Berlin and compare the combined result.

maybe some coaches were checking...

dj

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:36 pm

Could you post the results from Berlin that you collected?

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby grandevaulter » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:16 pm

Roman Barchonikov wrote a piece on the approach. He claimed that Bubka did not use a mid for some time during his career. He claims in the writing that Bubka was under as much using a mid as he was without.

Dj's charts and techniques may be to advanced for the high school kids. I've watched several vaulters at our level decelerate drastically within the mid or 6. Granted it is natural for the turnover to decelerate as the plant is initiated. The comparisons made by DJ with T Mack and Bubka are fantastic. Our meets and practices are held on football fields in the middle of corn fields. We have vaulted in spitting snow. Head winds 10 mph and higher. By the time the State meet comes there is a 30 degree F difference. You have to get rid of all the bells and whistles and keep it simple. We do not make it to Olympic type stadiums.

High school coaches are out on the front lines of of this event. Some of us take it very seriously. Each time I see a vaulter run and take it up I learn or understand something about the event.

grandevaulter
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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby grandevaulter » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:17 pm

I am watching Silva, Suhr and Isebyeva and I don't see even a slight forward lean. Suhr appeared to decelerate on her last attempt.

fishman4god
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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:48 pm

grandevaulter wrote:I am watching Silva, Suhr and Isebyeva and I don't see even a slight forward lean. Suhr appeared to decelerate on her last attempt.


The forward lean is only during about the first 3-4 strides and is very subtle. Look at the upper body compared to the runway not their lower body.....you will see it at the beginning of the run.

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Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby dj » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:27 am

good morning.......

An ancient Arkansas "philosopher" by the name of Confuseus once ask the question...

"Does the Gold Medalist in the Olympic Ten Meter Platform Diving competition… practice their Olympic dives from five meters?"

dj

fishman4god
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Favorite Vaulter: Tim Mack

Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby fishman4god » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:23 am

dj wrote:good morning.......

An ancient Arkansas "philosopher" by the name of Confuseus once ask the question...

"Does the Gold Medalist in the Olympic Ten Meter Platform Diving competition… practice their Olympic dives from five meters?"

dj

No clue where you are going with that quote dj

grandevaulter
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Favorite Vaulter: Timothy Mack
Location: South West, MI

Re: Approach run misconception.

Unread postby grandevaulter » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:31 pm

" if you start too fast on the approach run you will run out of speed by the finish."


DJ, I have once again reviewed your charts and a paper you published on certain aspects of the approach. The chart is great for coaches and the beginner vaulters as it gives a practical and safe starting point for the hand hold and the three / six step approach. You provide a useful bench mark.

The ten meter high dive has no more to do with this subject than Tiger Woods hitting a bad chip shot because he decelerated his swing before impact. I think Confuses said that too.

Rhythm, tempo, posture, practice practice practice.


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