PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby tsorenson » Tue May 08, 2012 12:16 pm

Reggiepv,

Sorry if my comments gave the wrong impression. Neither hand is allowing rotation during the approach, but neither is closed fully on the pole. An "open" hand can still squeeze the pole between the thumb and forefinger and keep it from spinning. The pole does rotate at the plant, which occurs when the top hand flips the pole over. The top hand, although not "closed," never allows the pole to rotate within itself, but causes pole rotation by flipping over. Having the hand slightly open just makes it easier to be relaxed on the runway, and also for the top hand to travel straight up the body as the pole flips over, without hyperflexing the wrist or letting the hand come back behind the right hip. This photo sequence might explain what I am talking about (see 2nd and 3rd frames):
http://www.quintic.com/quinac/Press%20a ... ekly_6.htm

At this point the bottom hand is a fulcrum point and just punches UP and then squeezes tightly; no wasted motion. You are right that the bottom hand must allow rotation of the pole at the start of the plant for this to work, or else a roundhouse plant would occur. The shortest possible path of travel for the hands during the plant allow tightening of the final strides and jumping off the ground without compressing or losing speed.

Hope that clarifies my previous comments!

Tom

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby dj » Tue May 08, 2012 8:30 pm

again... physics..

the grip has to be the way Petrov describes top tighter... bottom.. "open"

i have a pic of one of Bubka's better grips but don't know how to attach it to the thread..

it CAN be done other ways but i have "field" tested with many athletes and the carry is more stable... the plant easier.. running strides are much more "controlled" but still fast.. AND if the left wrist is kept above the elbow.. you will never be late..

dj

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby altius » Tue May 08, 2012 9:05 pm

As I suggested earlier - and as is becoming apparent from succeeding posts - the key to this issue is the Petrov method of planting the pole - in which in the run and plant the bottom arm/hand is simply a fulcrum around which the pole rotates as the top hand moves the pole into position for take off.

The bottom arm is only used to compensate for an inefficient carry in which the hand has been allowed to move over the top of the pole instead -as dj suggests - of always remaining under it.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby dj » Thu May 10, 2012 8:34 am

good morning,

i have described the pole grip and starting carry position this way.

Toe your mark and hold the pole up in the plant position with the tip on the runway….grip the top grip on the pole with the "full" hand as in planting… firm but not "death grip"… take the top hand down to the hip… lift the pole into position with the left hand. It is held 10 inches from the chest with the thumb and forefinger "under" the pole with the elbow angled "Down", wrist higher than the elbow throughout the drop and plant. The left hand will "control" the weight during the run and drop by "balancing" the weight with the COM and the right hand will control the plant using the left "hand fork" as a fulcrum.

If you shift either the left hand "forward and back" it will move the mass forward and back (and the right grip) changing the way you run.. typically you will over stride.

Take two, two and a half or five pound "dumbbells" .. tie them together so the distance apart equals your grip width. Hold the right one on the hip the left on 10" in front of the chest… keep standing and move them forward and back and "feel" the difference.. Then run with them and see where the "balance" should be.

This jump was a pole carry improvement but the wrist could have been "above the elbow" more which would have meant he could carry bigger poles with a freer drop and run faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA7Dapjsh9A


dj

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Re: PLANT: top hand or bottom - which holds tight, which rotates

Unread postby reggiepv » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:10 pm

watching Isinbaeva in olympic finals provided plenty of close-up and slow motion replay to show very clearly that Becca is right and Isinbaeva holds tight bottom, loose top. (becca, you're pole vault knowledge is encyclopedic!)


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