Talent that disappeared?

A forum for coaches to discuss coaching technique and advice with each other. Only registered coaches can post in this forum.

Moderator: AVC Coach

User avatar
altius
PV Rock Star
Posts: 2425
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:27 am
Location: adelaide, australia
Contact:

Talent that disappeared?

Unread postby altius » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:18 am

Things are pretty quiet at the moment so lets stir the pot a little! We have all seen young potential superstars in every sport who never made full use of their potential - or at least they never achieved what was expected of them. This may have been for many reasons -some of which the athlete had no control over. So lets look at vaulters in the past ten years or so who did not fulfil OUR notion of their promise -you can name them or not -and suggest reasons or not - for the shortfall. I can begin the process with Christie Elwin who left Adelaide with a pr of 3.99m as a 17 year old to take up a scholarship at Tennessee.

IMHO she was all enough, strong enough, fast enough and committed enough to have vaulted 4.40 but she did not improve her pr until her senior year - and that to 4.02m. Why was this? her coach for the first three years was a throws coach -who when Christie introduced me to him at MT Sac, declined to sit with me to get my take on her -even though I had first put a pole into her hands as a 15 year old. Even that day she was ready to jump 4.30 - but he didnt advise her to move up poles and certainly did not ask my opinion.

However I saw a girl training at the University of Hawaii three? years ago - Amy Linnen?????? I am convinced she had the PHYSICAL ability to jump 4.90 and have often wondered what happened to her.

So lets see what folk think about this topic
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

User avatar
rainbowgirl28
I'm in Charge
Posts: 30435
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, I coach and officiate as life allows
Lifetime Best: 11'6"
Gender: Female
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Casey Carrigan
Location: A Temperate Island
Contact:

Re: Talent that disappeared?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:32 am

I'd say a few of the biggest causes I have seen for disappearing talent are:

- Making poor decisions in college (excessive partying, etc)
- Mental burnout
- Choosing a college that is not a good fit
- Change in coach during college which can turn a good fit into a bad fit

These often lead to failure to progress as hoped in college, and usually leave the athlete with little desire to continue training seriously.

I'm not referring to any specific athletes there, just making generalizations.

User avatar
VaultPurple
PV Lover
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach, Pole Vault Addict
Favorite Vaulter: Greg Duplantis
Location: North Carolina

Re: Talent that disappeared?

Unread postby VaultPurple » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:59 am

Well to add to the list of what happened athletes.. Where is Spencer McCorkle? I saw him jump at several meets last year for Liberty, all of which he either NH'ed or jumped like 15' at most, usually never running more than 4 lefts.

But as far as girls not living up to potential, I think the largest part of that in the United States at least, is that so many of the top female vaulters were really good gymnast that had good club coaches before college. These athletes, that may have (in the eyes of their coach), excellent technique, will not improve fast because the coach does not know what to do with them. These athletes have to be conditioned and turned into elite athletes, mostly they usually need to be faster. There are 12'6 high school girls all over the place that are level 10 gymnast that will never PR in college simply because their coach thinks their vault looks perfect.

You see this problem some with male vaulters too, but usually if a guy does not improve it was because he either made personal decisions in his life that made pole vaulting not one of his top priorities, or the coaching and facilities available to him were not the best they could be.

There is always injury and things like that too. But when it comes down to it, college is a big step for athletes and a very crazy time in life with a lot of distractions, not everyone has the ability to stay focused and become the best vaulter they were capable of being.

User avatar
rainbowgirl28
I'm in Charge
Posts: 30435
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, I coach and officiate as life allows
Lifetime Best: 11'6"
Gender: Female
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Casey Carrigan
Location: A Temperate Island
Contact:

Re: Talent that disappeared?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:05 am

It's much more common for a top level high school girl to fail to improve in college. The improvement rate of 13'+ HS girls in college is abysmal.

One big difference is that it's difficult to make big improvements to the physical abilities of 18-year-old girls. Nature is working against them over the next few years. Possible? Definitely! But any poor choices they make in the cafeteria or partying hurt them 100x more than the guys. And it can easily swing the other way as well, with eating disorders.

18-year-old guys will usually get stronger and faster just by looking at a set of weights. It takes a lot more for them to self-destruct. The first year of college can be a rough transition, but you're much more likely to see a 16' HS boy PR several times by year 4 of college.

dj
PV Enthusiast
Posts: 1858
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:07 am
Expertise: Coach
Contact:

Re: Talent that disappeared?

Unread postby dj » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:45 pm

hye

all of these are "reasons' but not good reasons or even acceptable...

girls should get stronger and faster in college... period..

oboviously they are not going to the right program or right coach...

that said everyone ( 90 %) is not going to go to a university where they will get real help...

it's on THEM, the athlete to make it happen... no excuses.. get faster and stronger... when the coach is coaching you down don't accept it. you have to make it happen for yourself..

we have more camps, coaches, 100's more than we had in the 70's and 80's and how much better are we doing here in the USA?

saidly the women (maybe it's their nature or how women are treated) want and have to be TOLD excactly what to do... men will step up and tell a coach that something feels wrong.. help me find it or i'll do it on my own.. Men will keep the coach working, thinking and improving.. women let it "slide"..

the best talent that is getting with a "just pole vault" coach (like EB once told one of his female jumper.. "there is not crying in pole vaulting... get on the runway and go...") and wants to be coached is making improvments.. the 3 best females i ahve worked with didn't want to "vault like a girl", they wanted to toe the line, haul A>> and scream over the bar...

Alan the new "club", vault centers we are now creating here in the USA is where the vault coaching is going to improve... but if they go off to college they will not get coached properly 90% of the time... generally only by returning to their roots, or one of the very few quailty training centers, will they have the best chance to move up to the Olympic level...

actually the vault here in the USA has always had "pockets" where the best vaulting was taking place... and that seems to be the case in Europe..

i don't think that university is the best place to develop the vault at a world class level and some of the talent that just entered this year as freshman should take a "red shirt' next year and find a place to train if they want a chance at the 2012 games.. just my opinion...

dj

User avatar
Cooleo111
PV Pro
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:15 pm
Expertise: HS/College/Post-collegiate vaulter, coach
Lifetime Best: 4.80
Location: New Jersey shore
Contact:

Re: Talent that disappeared?

Unread postby Cooleo111 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:06 pm

However I saw a girl training at the University of Hawaii three? years ago - Amy Linnen?????? I am convinced she had the PHYSICAL ability to jump 4.90 and have often wondered what happened to her.


I heard a year or two ago that she was helping out at SUNY Cortland, but I don't know any more than that.

Branko720
PV Whiz
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:49 am
Expertise: Club Coach
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Talent that disappeared?

Unread postby Branko720 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:23 am

Hey I'm with DJ. I think a lot of good hs vaulters end up going to colleges that don't have the level of coacing they received in hs.

There are 12'6 high school girls all over the place that are level 10 gymnast that will never PR in college simply because their coach thinks their vault looks perfect.


What does that mean? Also look a lot of people who jump high in hs, that are part of club, are very close to their potential. I mean some of those 12'6" girls in high school are like 5'4" and run the hundred in over 13 seconds. We are not talking about upper echelon athletes. Good high school athletes but not 14' + talent. I mean from a technical perspective those girls might be close to as good as they can get and the only thing left is to train. Same goes for some of the boys that have jumped high. Obviously that is not every case but some of those jumping high in hs have great coaching and have good technical vaults.

Often times the kids who pr in college or later are the ones that are better athletes and are not great technicians. As they improve their technique they pr.

User avatar
VaultPurple
PV Lover
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter, College Coach, Pole Vault Addict
Favorite Vaulter: Greg Duplantis
Location: North Carolina

Re: Talent that disappeared?

Unread postby VaultPurple » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:42 pm

It pretty much means exactly what you described...

Often times the kids who pr in college or later are the ones that are better athletes and are not great technicians. As they improve their technique they pr.


Those 12'6 girls do not have the physical attributes to get much better and it is really hard for them to get faster and stronger. And since the reason they are jumping 12'6 is because they have really good technique which was easy for them to learn because of their background in gymnastics, their coach has little they can do with them besides sprinting all day and following them to the dining hall to make sure they eat salad and stay away from the desert isle.

You see this less in guys because of what Becca said. Guys will pretty much always get faster and stronger in college, because that is the way the body works. Guys do not even have to lift weights and they will still gradually get stronger until they are around 21 years old. Guy's bodies are designed to get stronger with age while a girl's just gets bigger.

Vaultref
PV Pro
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 8:50 pm
Expertise: Master USATF official .. Vertical jumps specialty
Lifetime Best: zero feet

Re: Talent that disappeared?

Unread postby Vaultref » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:00 pm

altius wrote:.....
However I saw a girl training at the University of Hawaii three? years ago - Amy Linnen?????? I am convinced she had the PHYSICAL ability to jump 4.90 and have often wondered what happened to her.

So lets see what folk think about this topic


Yep, that was Amy.. One my favorite female vaulters of all times.. From NY too, so I was able to see her jump as a high schooler. She was training in Hawaii and teaching of all things how to surf the waves. Her indoor NCAA record was just recently broken.
Attended and jumped for Arizona and later Kansas. Saw her jump a couple times during her NCAA career. She also jumped at the USATF outdoor meet I was at in Indianapolis (Ms Becca was there covering the events), maybe others too, but I'm not sure. Possibly at the 2008 trials.

Currently she is teaching in her former school district in Mt Sinai NY. She coaches and had a vaulter qualify for last years Indoor NY state meet. Didn't see her there this year.. and I missed that if she was. Sure do hope to see her again.


Return to “Pole Vault - Coaches Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests