4 step mid?

[Barefoot]

I first started using a 6 step mid mark which I brought back from the Florida pole vault camp circa '79-'80.

When I started coaching in Southern California I discovered that the high school vaulters out here were using a 4 step mid. Its a hard trend to buck, especially when your vaulters may also work with "other" coaches in the off season.

Has anyone out there extrapolated DJ's 6-step chart into a 4 step chart?

[souleman]

I know that Steve White and Chris Milton up here in Minnesota use a four step mid mark or "coaches mark". For the kids I work with I use DJ's 6 step mark. I'm also trying to teach them how to use and understand DJ's chart. As to the 4 step I can say that it can be used as well . Steve was working with me one night at at his Wednesday night Flights and I was "marking" for me based on DJ's chart(roughly a 38' mid for an 11' 6" grip). He was coaching me from the 4 step (roughly 28 or 29 feet).When I hit the 28' he was OK with it. As time went by, when I started getting close to the 29' he could tell I was running out of gas. The thing that will always draw me to the 6 step is the fact that I can eye ball the mark and have time to look at the take off and jump. Gives me more time and that's why I prefer the 6 step coaches mark. Chris might be able to shine some light on their reasoning's for the 4 step. Maybe he'll jump in. Later........................Mike

[powerplant42]

From what I remember reading in the mid-mark thread, dj isn't so big on the 4 step mark... at all. The science is all screwed up.

[Barefoot]

I'm not espousing use of either a 6 or a 4 step Mid (aka) coaches mark. It is merely fact that four steps is the most common usage in some places. I can practice with six steps, but at some meets where the coach does not have access to the runway, the 4 step mids will be very clearly marked and usable from the stands.

We can leave this thread... or call it closed. There are great debates elsewhere on the board about mid-marks of which I do not have the expertise comment upon.

[vault3rb0y]

I've always used a 4 step since high school, and its somewhere between 36-38ft and i know some 17'-18' vaulters that it is beyond 40 for. It works... there's an arguement that 4-step mids wont work, but it will. The science behind saying "you must have your here 'here' to vault 'this high'" is off, but for new vaulters i feel like only seeing 4 steps instead of 6 steps out would be more accurate.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

There are strong camps on both sides of the "mid" mark..many like the 4 step mid because it's easier to see the mid and take-off..some use it because long jumpers use it...some of us believe that it is possible to be "on" a 4 stride mark and be off at the take off, whereas it is much less likely for that to happen with a six stride mark..besides some of the best coaces in the world use the six stride mark like ...hhhmmmmm Coach Petrov....Coach Bemiller....DJ...just my .02...

[kcvault]

I don't think it really matters what mid you use. I have always used the four step mid and am usually at 39 or 40. But I know if I catch them both evrytime I'm at 39 on the four step i'm about 52 on the six step and when im at 40 on the four step i'm always around 53 on the six step. Also I think it depends on what your looking for I know alot of college vaulters whos long run is six or seven lefts, Elite vaulters usually run from nine or ten lefts. I would say for the person running from six or seven lefts use the four step mid and the person running from nine or ten lefts use the six step mid. I'm going to switch to the six step mid this year because i'm going to try to start my pole drop 3 lefts out from the box and I want to know what my body position and carry look like at that point. But as far as step accuracy I dont believe it will make any difference what mid is cought.

[Capt Caveman]

What information is being gathered with a mid mark? From what I am reading you are measuring only a portion (from the start to some point before the take off) of the run. I am assuming you begin with a take off step, get that where it is supposed to be, then see where the mid is? Or is there a system to determine the mid that does not involve the take off?

Why are you eliminating the latter portion of the run?

Why is one mid better than another?

If I understand what everyone is saying how close is too close, at what point do you no longer want to "sample" the run, and why?

I see a lot of people say 30's 40's 50's and it seems that with a high school kid, running from around 100 feet, you want a mid closer than in the 50's since you would be sampling only half (if that) of their run?

If you have a mid that far away from the pit how do you see the jump? or is there a way to coach from behind?

A lot of quetions here.

[kcvault]

It is important to determine were the takeoff should be at first. However with out the mid mark it is impossible to tell if that take off is accurate. They may have hit that take off by over striding the last few steps, or by chopping there steps. However the vaulter rarely does either of these things before they hit the mid mark. Therefor the mid mark is a much more accurate step. If you had enough coaches it would be beneficial to catch several other marks as well like one two lefts in, one at the mid and one at the take off. This would insure consistency. However if you are only able to catch one step the mid would be the most important because its the closest mark to the takeoff that you can catch and not be thrown off by the vaulter over striding or chopping. As an example if I hit 41ft mid a foot out from where I should be but look under at take off my coach can tell me that I need to move my step up a foot and try to get my feet down at takeoff. If my coach had only caught the take off then he would have told me to move back a foot putting me two feet out for the next jump. To determine which mid mark to catch you need to determine how far your vaulter is running which mid you can catch most easily especially if your coaching from the stands, and what your looking for at different stages of the approach.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

All this has been drug through the discussion threads many times before. Check out the DJ's mid mark chart..I believe KirkB even added the metric equivalents....all the information you need is there...

[Capt Caveman]

I did see that chart. I assumed that it applied to data gathered about a single vaulter throughout their progression and development. Is that a one size fits all chart? Is there somewhere on this site where the size of the athlete is discussed and how to adjust the chart based on that? Say a 6'1" vaulter as compared to a 5'6" kid? What is the base height for the athlete this chart is used for and how do you adjust the #'s for taller and shorter kids with varying stride lengths?

[souleman]

Captain, With very slight adjustments based on vaulter's height, the chart is pretty much a "one size fit's all" thing. DJ's chart is based on the physics of the run in regards to the distance that needs to be covered in an amount of time for a certain grip to achieve a certain height (very quick and not very complete explanation). With that said, all of the threads regarding your above questions are answered in the threads regarding DJ's mid mark chart. That's why coach Job referred you back to those threads. Good luck and keep posting. This is a great forum.....................later.................Mike.