Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

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Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

Unread postby superpipe » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:44 pm

Sorry for being a d*#%. Shouldn't have posted it. The positive out of it was the college guys killed it last night and that had to be one of the best PV comps EVER! I was on the edge of my seat ( at home unfortunately ) for the whole thing.

I wouldn't go as far as saying results are just results on a date. Specific meets are meant to mean WAY more than others. There are no weather affects indoors, so jumping "should" be at a higher level overall on a consistent basis.

I know tail winds and sunshine are facts of better jumping and "steroids" for a vaulter, but still.
Last edited by superpipe on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

Unread postby KLocke » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:34 pm

What is your point? If your objective is to make so called, Pros feel bad. You succeed.The guys were well aware of this analysis last evening. It was not Head-to-Head. In fact it was 6 days apart. How about agreeing to a "truce"? At the end of the day, we are ONE NATION. March 9 results are encouraging. However, March 9 results are what they are. Indoor, March 9 results. I would bet that Walker returns from OZ with an "A" Standard. Top 3 post collegiate men produced indoor PB's a week before and had better results than the collegians on "March 3"

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Re: Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

Unread postby superpipe » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:27 pm

I just read the LoJo post. Seriously, I didn't read that before I made this post with the comparison. My bad.
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Re: Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

Unread postby kewh » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:34 pm

Please people stay positive. Help is on the way. We have a great bunch of guys working hard. Keep it positive and do not post negative things. Help these guys instead of being negative. Enough said. Thanks Karen and many others.

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Re: Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

Unread postby PV2020 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:11 am

I see no problem in what was originally posted.

The difference? There is no difference? Last night was some of the top Elite pole vaulters in the United States. Professional is loosely defined term but those guys were our 'Professionals'.

If you compare pole vaulters to other countries try this:

Andrew Irwin is a professional pole vaulter
Jack Whitt is a professional pole vaulter
Sam Kendricks is a professional pole vaulter
Jake Blankenship is a professional pole vaulter
Shawn Barber, Derick Hinch, Michael Whoepse are all professional pole vaulters.

Why do I say this? These guys are all receiving compensation for their athletic abilities (I take it none of these guys are walk ons). It is just the NCAA that deems them armatures within their rule book. But compared to the current top professional athletes, and probably compared to most pole vaulters around the country these guys have it made! They get travel, room, and all meals paid for to all their meets, train in world class facilities, get poles for free, get nutritionist, sports medicine doctors, athletic trainers, anything a professional athlete could ever ask for.

Yes some of these guys are not on full rides and are paying for it, or their parents are paying for it, or they have a student loan. But for these four or five years, these guys are training full time in a much better circumstance than 90% of the top pole vaulters in the world!


What is the difference in the NCAA final and the USA Indoor Final every year? 1-3 of the "Pros" are athletes that can train full time as a pole vaulter while all 16 of the men that qualify for NCAA's are elite level athletes that get to train full time.

We keep our fingers crossed that this massive college field will produce an outstanding number of pros in the near future, but unless all of these guys that jumped great this year leave college and get to train full time and dedicate their lives to pole vaulting, they will not produce all that many more elite level pole vaulters than the past.

The truth of the matter is that 3 guys get to go to Worlds/Olympics each year. If you are not one one of those you are probably not funded all too well, and even if you are one of those you still may not be.

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Re: Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

Unread postby achtungpv » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:50 am

PV2020 nails it.
"You have some interesting coaching theories that seem to have little potential."

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Re: Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

Unread postby ADTF Academy » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:51 am

First off as mentioned do we even have any PROS right now with the exception of Brad, Jeremy and Mark. I think they are the only ones actually on a shoe contract with a base salary (not one you would think a professional athlete would have I'm sure) making more than poverty line off pole vaulting. Rest are Gear and Bonus as far as I know and most probably report a business loss/no income due to hobby laws and not being able to report a loss. Gear and bonus contracts the equivalent of a slap in the face. Well we don't really think you are good and your event isn't important, but just in case you find a way to be good here is some free stuff so no one else can give you any money. We will back load it with so many outs for us that we own you for 3-4 years and can drop you when we want for breathing to the left instead of to the right. Sadly if you don't take it and you do well than you missed out on the bonus for not having a contract. Slaves!!!!


The other key point missing is time of year.... I was at US Indoors I left the meet feeling like we have a bunch of guys near the point of dialing into some good things. Its just really early for them. Not making excuses by any means. If anyone was 100% peaked for US Indoor Nationals their coach should be fired. (exception Jen who I'm guessing circled meet to set WR)


Indoors for Post Collegiate athletes is/was basically useless. Agree to disagree but most were just training and working on what ever it is they are working on. College is built around peaking to excel. The college athletes have been going none stop for some since September to be ready to peak for Indoor Nationals. They will peak again for Outdoor Nationals than realize it is a long season and most likely fizzle out down the home stretch. The true sign will be how many college guys finish in the Top 8 at Outdoor Nationals. June is a long ways away.


This whole debate over and over again is pointless to me. Maybe its just my vantage point of things from someone deep into the elite side of things, but it is quite simple. Does any of our athletes have the ability to Fly over to Europe get off a plane and within 36 hours jump 5.70 Plus. Till than we have a bunch of guys who bend sticks in college and post collegiately. Putting up a mark or two really doesn't mean anything till you can go to Europe and put up the same bars. Its a start for sure. As many have said our system is not set up for us to succeed. Someone needs to go out and find a way. Dig deeper if you must as Karen has pointed out and is trying to give incentive with her program. The days of a long series of meets paying well and supporting athletes are over. The days of shoe contracts that give athletes a base salary are over. Its all performance based now and geared around the key principle get off a plane and perform. Will we have any guys who can firstly even get a chance to jump in a Diamond League meet or Grand Prix. Than will they be able to fly over 2 days before the meet. Get over the jet lag quickly and jump 5.70+. I get it sports fans tend to be quite judgmental of their home team. If USA is our home team than sure be judgmental. However, none of the fans of our sport pay a dime to go watch their favorite team. Team USA doesn't give them a dime to compete for them.

Case in point Mary Saxer and Scott Roth made world indoor teams last year and got nothing not even tier status. Becky Holiday made the Olympic Final and barely was given Tier 2 status (moved into top 20 in the world in the last few weeks of the season barely). Let me remind you Tier 2 status is basically 6,000. We have no teams just a bunch of lone rangers out fighting the good fight. Case in point it costed Rick and Jenn thousands of dollars because they couldn't wear anything Adidas around the Olympics. Adidas was not a IOC, USOC or USATF sponsor so during the build up to and after the Olympics it was not a sponsor she could promote missing out on great chances to promote herself and the event. Why would Nike do a commercial or promote an Adidas athlete.

For me due 100% to experience only atm our top guys are Brad, Jeremy and Mark. They are the only three currently on the guys side who have that experience. The rest will be hoping they can succeed if even given a shot. I have Domestic PR's and averages for everyone athlete and International PR's and averages. Huge difference for some. Looking back at recent history have we even had anyone even make a team with no travel experience and if so did they even perform well? The fundamental issue is more in lines of whats the focus, the opportunity to compete or trying to be in position to medal? I'd be safe to guess no experience means no real chance to medal.

Only Brad and Jenn receive early confirmations. They are the only two that can get early travel to meets. We show up at some meets everyone else has been there for 3-4 days prior to us showing up. US athletes tend to be last minute notice and last minute travel. Therefore, unless athletes find a way or those who feel they have all the answers are willing to become a benefactor and support athletes than its just fluff. Go worry about your own hobbies the athletes have their own issues. I think my new line when people want to force advice down our throats will be, ok if you donate 5,000+ you are allowed to give us your unsolicited opinion on how to make the athlete better. Till than you have no investment in what we are doing so sorry don't care. Sometimes its hard to hear but if the athlete and coach actually cared they would have asked for it.

If its so easy why don't you have an athlete jumping high or why are you not jumping high? If your not engulfed in the sport on this level do you really understand what's going on? Go develop someone I did with two athletes so far with no backing or support from anyone. I don't have a club anymore had to stop it was getting in the way of coaching the elites. I barely have a job it gets in the way of the time commitment to coach elites. I did it without a D1 college program athlete recruiting base. All that said I'm currently working on a third and have no major complaints. You learn to make it work. I did it why can't you. Excuses come in many forms. I'm sure the athletes and their coaches are working harder than ever to fix something and could use support not opinions. Heck suggestions would even be ok. Why would anyone do anything at this level if they are not trying to excel. Not for the money thats for sure. The biggest example of someone from the outside trying is Karen. She is an agent and fan of the event. She has given some of the guys extra incentive to jump 5.70+ I sure hope the old green dollar will cause some to find a way. No one else is offering any incentives. I'll take her criticism all day long because she put her pocketbook on the line for the guys. Showing she is and wants to be invested too.

Sadly for the time being we have a bunch of guys and girls bending sticks for fun. Professional means your making money we don't have many doing that right now. I sure hope that changes for the good of the sport. So as it was posted the College athletes are treated more like Professionals than those out of college.

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Re: Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

Unread postby oldschool52 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:01 pm

Well, I was at NCAA and Texas Relays. Cool thing about this crop of college guys is that they are getting to be real close friends. They really pull for each other. It's like they're all on the same team! Jack Whitt is definitely the chairman of the board and they all look to him as "the guy." As long as they keep having fun like that, I think the bars of USA pole vault will keep rising. I hope that the "pros" will accept these young guys and help them when their paths cross. Wouldn't that be great if there were some wisdom shared (there's a ton of it out there.)

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Re: Current USA "Pros" vs "College" Men

Unread postby KLocke » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:23 pm

Naturally, all is accepted. We also have a nice crop of post-collegiate men. Hopefully, what went on in Texas does not stay in Texas. I expect the USA men's pole vault to continue to evolve and change. Exciting turn of direction on Saturday and a testament to good coaching and good athletes. We have been a powerful pole vault nation and we are fighting our way back global prominence.

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oldschool52 wrote:Well, I was at NCAA and Texas Relays. Cool thing about this crop of college guys is that they are getting to be real close friends. They really pull for each other. It's like they're all on the same team! Jack Whitt is definitely the chairman of the board and they all look to him as "the guy." As long as they keep having fun like that, I think the bars of USA pole vault will keep rising. I hope that the "pros" will accept these young guys and help them when their paths cross. Wouldn't that be great if there were some wisdom shared (there's a ton of it out there.)


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