USA List.. 6M-4.80M

News about Elite US pole vaulters and elite competitions that occur on US soil.

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby PV2020 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:26 am

The leading factor that made Jenn so favorable to a coach to learn to pole vault was her speed, strength, athleticism, and height. In college she ran 14.58 over the 100m hurdles and could high jump 5'5 and long jump 17'11. The jumps are not that impressive for her height but the speed from the hurdles is combined with the strength and explosiveness seen in her 153'7 javelin (all this coming off of a record setting basketball season!). She was raw and untrained in the vault, but had a ton of athletic ability so she improved rapidly.

So this shows her two main things, SPEED AND STRENGTH!

Now who has SPEED AND STRENGTH and has gone mid to high 13s or 14s?

Sandi Morris has pole vaulted 4.30m and ran 14.32 in the 100m hurdles. She is relatively tall as well and if you have seen her vault it is still pretty raw. About to start her Junior year. Jumped that 4.30 as a freshman but did not jump 4.00 until the summer before her freshman year of college.

Joanna Wright has gone 4.30m and ran 15.04 in 100mh. She is kind of girl that in high school just did everything for her team and was lucky to go form 12'6 to 14' in college.

Other athletes over 4.20m in the vault in college that did other events:

Kelsie Ahbe: 4.30 pole vault, 12.85 100m dash, 7.44 55m dash
Keisa Monterola: 4.37 pole vault, 18'1.75 long jump (Not American)
Katrine Haarklau: 4.20 pole vault, 157'2.5'' javelin (Not American)

Relatively good high school marks in other events for 14+ pole vaulters:

Bethany Buell: 4.40 pole vault, 15.24 100m hurdles
Kelsy Kintz: 4.27 pole vault, 12.98 100m dash


One thing to remember is that there are also girls currently in the 12-13 foot range with good marks like sub 15 in the 100m hurdles that are waiting to jump onto the scene but I am going to let them improve in the vault a little more before I list them.

In the same way there are some of the top vaulters over 13-14 foot that have just never ran a race and could probably run mid to low 12s in the 100m dash or be pretty good in long jump or hurdles.


I think the best two examples of the difference in vaulters are as Altius and and DJ have made are Sandi Morris and Angie Rummans. Morris is obviously a natural athlete that was a very good athlete that became a pole vaulter and has improved rapidly. While Rummans was a very good gymnast that was fast and athletic and picked up pole vault quickly thanks to great body awareness for gymnastics, but she is above average in height and pretty quick (although she does not race events, so has no documented speed unless one of her coaches wants to reveal them).

If I were looking at these two ladies side by side I would just say Rummans would peak sooner because of the gymnastics background and no one knowing how fast she really is. But both Rummans and Morris have improved pretty well over past 2-3 years but both have things they need to work with. And DJ if you were to watch video on either one I am sure you would have something to say about how both of them run. Although Altius said Rummans can run, she still has some posture issues (she pretty much runs like LOJO, but she is not nearly as big and strong as he was to pull it off). Then Morris still runs like a hurdler with what almost looks like a low knee shuffle step.

dj wrote:hye

2013 4.26/4.35i ( 4.60 ???in a very low key meet that summer).
2014 4.66/4.68i
2015 4.88
2016 4.92

women that are ready?

Sandi Morris?

dj
Last edited by PV2020 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:44 am

PV2020 wrote:Joanna Wright has gone 4.30m and ran 15.04 in 100mh. She is kind of girl that in high school just did everything for her team and was lucky to go form 12'6 to 14' in college.


I think she has retired from pole vaulting.

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby altius » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:50 am

I said Angie can run!! Agapit is keeping his head down. However as I said three years ago she was the most talented girl I had ever worked with and I have been around a few. Anyone who can get to 11'6 inside 6 days has got to have something going for them - at least if you accept that rapid early progress is a valid sign of potential. As I said earlier, she wasted a couple of years but now she is on track working with an excellent coach. I have also been around long enough to know that unexpected things can prevent folk from realising their talent, but unless something unfortunate crops up I believe we will see a great vaulter emerge.

With all due respect to dj, he is not the only person who understands the importance of the run up and how best to teach it in the vault.

I also think it is worth remembering that while Jenn Suhr is indeed a great athlete - in all senses of that word, Feofanova - a former gymnast - has jumped 4.90/16' although only a tiny '5'4".
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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby PV2020 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:28 am

Fixed.. I just typed the wrong name. The only argument is max potential with an effective technique. There are few people that would argue that Feofanova didn't have great technique, by any means it is probably one of the best, if not the best of any woman ever. And she is fast. But imagine how high Suhr would jump if she had the same technique as Feofanova? The argument is who can get to the top heights the fastest and easiest, as well as even higher. But do not think I am saying Angie will not be a great pole vaulter, just stating the things to look for for long term potential.

altius wrote:I said Angie can run!! Agapit is keeping his head down. However as I said three years ago she was the most talented girl I had ever worked with and I have been around a few. Anyone who can get to 11'6 inside 6 days has got to have something going for them - at least if you accept that rapid early progress is a valid sign of potential. As I said earlier, she wasted a couple of years but now she is on track working with an excellent coach. I have also been around long enough to know that unexpected things can prevent folk from realising their talent, but unless something unfortunate crops up I believe we will see a great vaulter emerge.

With all due respect to dj, he is not the only person who understands the importance of the run up and how best to teach it in the vault.

I also think it is worth remembering that while Jenn Suhr is indeed a great athlete - in all senses of that word, Feofanova - a former gymnast - has jumped 4.90/16' although only a tiny '5'4".

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby dj » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:58 am

Good Morning,

Alan

I to believe there are coaches that can teach the run… in Sandi Morris case, the "technical" part of her run and vault was/has been on "hold" since leaving high school. I expect that to change at Arkansas.

Hopefully you will remember that in Rusty's camp at South Carolina several years ago, that all the vaulters that came to your pit had the run "on", from pole runs on the track, with a check mark, first on the track. All but two that is, continued to use the length, number of steps and correct "MID".

Each vaulter had a "partner check the mark. The two "failures" were actually forced, by their coach, to use the run he had helped them establish before the camp, not the run that worked correctly during the earlier the pole run session.

Unfortunately they ran through every time and you never got to work on their vault technique. They left the camp at noon because of frustration.

The run is the "last phase" of the vault that is in general being neglected or being approach from the wrong perspective. It's interesting that the FIRST phase of the vault, the run and pole carry/drop, is LAST to be corrected! or not coached or corrected at all!!

dj

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby dj » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:18 am

I to believe there are coaches that can teach the run… in Sandi Morris case, the "technical" part of her run and vault was/has been on "hold" since leaving high school. I expect that to change at Arkansas.


Please let me retract/rephrase this part of my last post… this was not a stab at Josh.. quite the contrary.. the factors were not necessarily "coaching" but how the athlete reacts to the coaching, environment, outside influences etc..

The athlete is responsible… I have said this before and many times… our sport is NOT a lack of coaching.. it's not the University, the coach or USATF… it's the athlete.. was I a different athlete than many of today's athletes??? I believe so… I jumped 25 feet without a coach, I tripled jumped 50 feet without a coach… do you think Earl Bell, Dean Starky, Tim Mack or Mike Tully had anymore "advantages" in college or as a professional as ANY of today's jumpers??!! NO

The athlete is responsible and it remains to be seen if Sandi steps up, I'm pulling for her and all the potential "up and comers..

That is why I started this thread… 'call them out" and find a way to help them help themselves…

dj

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby achtungpv » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:13 pm

ADTF Academy wrote:On a side note if your logic is true Andrew Irwin would have a better chance. 5.72 as a freshman in college.


Completely forgot about Andrew. I actually think he has a great shot at being the best American ever. He has more upside than anyone I've seen in a long time.
"You have some interesting coaching theories that seem to have little potential."

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby achtungpv » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:18 pm

KLocke wrote:Well, the newest 6 meter member has done at age 33


I think everyone missed where I was referring to vaulters that cleared 6m more than once.

A WR will not be set by a vaulter with a single 6m vault and it will not be set by someone that first clears 5.80 in the late 20s and 6.00 in their 30s.

The next WR holder will have 10+ 6m, 20+ 5.90m, and 30+ 5.80m vaults under their belt.

To get the level needed to jump 6.16, they are going to have to be very consistent at consistently high heights. You won't get there if you don't progress quickly early on.
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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby gtc » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:23 pm

dj wrote:thanks everyone for the input.... i haven't read it thoroughly but will..

question.. what was the approach run length/number of strides of these vaulters in college.



Lawrence Johnson never jumped 6 meters
Jacob Davis never jumped 6 meters
Bill Payne never jumped 6 meters (18 steps) (53-6 mid) (13-3 takeoff) (16-3 Grip) (19-2 3/4 clearance)
Joe Dial never jumped 6 meters
Russ Buller never jumped 6 meters
Jim Davis never jumped 6 meters
Tommy Skipper never jumped 6 meters
Brad Walker jumped 6 meters

dj

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby altius » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:46 pm

"As a coach I have a list of roughly 10 venues around the world I want to get my athlete too because those are the places where everyone in the meet jumps really high. If you don't get to that venue than your chances of jumping high are less IMO."

Out of interest can you list those venues and suggest why they produce good results - apart from ensuring that vaulters always get the benefit of the wind direction. :yes:
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby Decamouse » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:34 pm

Box is deeper than "normal" -- Good runway. good competition - money
Plant like crap sometimes ok most times

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Re: USA List.. 6M-4.80M

Unread postby altius » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:10 pm

But where are they is the question????
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden


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