Worst indoor season ever ?

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby AVC Coach » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:32 am

Short runs have always been a staple of our training. During the off-season, it's a necessity in my opinion. We long run in practice during the season, but not all of the time. We go by "feel" as to whether we long run that day or not. Some days the legs feel fresh and some days they don't. We don't have time to waste. If an athlete's legs are sore or tired from a previous workout (and don't say I should plan the workouts to be fresh on jump days because I don't have any control of most of my student's workouts at their schools) we've still got to get something done. We've got to get a little better each day or we're losing ground. Running from a long run and having to go down to small poles because your legs don't have it is not the key in my opinion. If running through or bailing out because your body can't handle a long run on that particular day is your idea of a successful vault session, then by all means, keep plugging away. I'm not subscribing to that logic.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby Robert schmitt » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:23 am

AVC Coach wrote:Short runs have always been a staple of our training. During the off-season, it's a necessity in my opinion. We long run in practice during the season, but not all of the time. We go by "feel" as to whether we long run that day or not. Some days the legs feel fresh and some days they don't. We don't have time to waste. If an athlete's legs are sore or tired from a previous workout (and don't say I should plan the workouts to be fresh on jump days because I don't have any control of most of my student's workouts at their schools) we've still got to get something done. We've got to get a little better each day or we're losing ground. Running from a long run and having to go down to small poles because your legs don't have it is not the key in my opinion. If running through or bailing out because your body can't handle a long run on that particular day is your idea of a successful vault session, then by all means, keep plugging away. I'm not subscribing to that logic.


Very well put.
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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby altius » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:48 pm

"If running through or bailing out because your body can't handle a long run on that particular day is your idea of a successful vault session, then by all means, keep plugging away. I'm not subscribing to that logic."

Nor do I!

Folks - I put together a long post detailing my beliefs on all of these issues - but must have hit the wrong button because it all disappeared into the ether. I cant repeat it - can only say that my opinions - especially on the importance of accuracy and consistency, rather than an emphasis on speed in the run up - are detailed in Chapter 24 of BTB2. Of course speed is important but not at the expense of precise technical execution. The great thing here is that this that is can be achieved through grinding repetitions -something any ambitious athlete can do.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby VaultisgOOd » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:22 pm

Hahaha. "Worst indoor season ever ?" to " Short runs or not". I love this site.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby dj » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:46 am

hey...

moved to a new thread

"Stop Making the Same Mistakes......

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Last edited by dj on Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby pvdudedad » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:29 am

VaultisgOOd wrote:Hahaha. "Worst indoor season ever ?" to " Short runs or not". I love this site.


perfect, could be the reason that nothing will ever be fixed in the US... people get in pissing matches and you start to hear a lot of "back in my day" stories... its 2011 in a s*** economy, colleges dont like post collegiate vaulters, usatf doesn't give a damn, theres less and less meets... what can be done to fix US pole vaulting???

Checking egos at the door might help, but i just dont see that happening across the board... thank you Fuzion athletics and hopefully the Gill series will happen again too

get this thread back on topic

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby dj » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:31 am

Worst indoor season ever ?
by atlegu » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:23 pm
I might provoke someone, especially since I am not an American (and comes from a country without any significant pole vaulters since 1930). However I think it is should be debated: Why are the US male vaulters (as a group) so bad this year?

This indoor season is according to the statistics all time low for US vaulters. This is not a critic of each and one jumper, but it is kind of scary that Mark Hollis is the best American with 5.63 meter. In, a not extremely good year internationally, he is number 13 on the world rankings for 2011.

No country in the world have more high school and college vaulters than the US. What happen with them?

Is it the start on a trend ? is it just a fact of randomness ? Will it be different next year ?

Atle


The "stories" are information in support of my opinion so that I'm NOT speaking from "ego" or from "because I said so"… …

Fact: higher runway speeds produce higher vaults.

Fact: the majority of vaulters from 30-20-10 years ago had longer Approach Run distances.

Fact: Today's vaulters as a whole are practicing more from short runs and not (never) transitioning to longer runs. They should be transitioning within the same season where as most are not even moving to longer runs in a 2/3 year span!!

Fact: we have more vaulters participating with the "average" heights achieved going up but the "top end" averages are lower.

Fact: Accuracy on the approach run is the number one predictor of a successful vault.

Fact: We have more vaulting poles available today than any time in our vault history.

A question?

Has any 6.00m vaulter run slower than 9.3 mps or had an approach run shorter than 18 strides?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of my opinions..

*Some of the potentially best high school talent is "pushed" into the decathlon in college because they are good at several events.

*We do too much "short run" vaulting (with the incorrect run technique) with no/"O" transition to longer runs.

*We have too many pole designs and most do not "fit' the physics of the event at any level, and this creates a huge "technical" problem for youth and beginners.

*We are refusing to "change" our methods and our approach to teaching and/or vaulting even though we are not working with the physics of the event and continue to produce the same but wrong result.

I think everyone should state their opinions with their experience for support. That makes it more of an educated, knowledgeable "debate" ….

dj

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby pvdudedad » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:50 am

cant believe there wasnt something about a mid in there

dj wrote:Fact: we have more vaulters participating with the "average" heights achieved going up but the "top end" averages are lower.


these are the 18-22 year olds I assume? How do we convince them that continuing vaulting is a good idea, how can we make it possible for them to make a living so they can pay to pole vault because as we all know, your not going to make a living vaulting right now in the US. we need these kids to vault for 4 more years to reach potential.

Why arnt there a few places where post collegiate can go train? USATF clubs where they move there and the club already has a relationship with businesses to get them a job.. distance runners do it, why cant the pole vault community?

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby dj » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:42 pm

hye

cant believe there wasnt something about a mid in there


have you ever tried checking it? (a 6 styep "MID" that is) and compared the numbers of "best vaults" to the chart?

and be honest..

dj
Last edited by dj on Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby altius » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:32 pm

"we need these kids to vault for 4 more years to reach potential." Absolutely - Plus the opportunity to experience international competition! But clearly this is not possible in the US unless they have wealthy relatives, or are prepared to make enormous sacrifices over several years to achieve a goal - with no guarantees that they will get there!
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby dj » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:08 pm

hehhhehehhe

sounds like this is where we (American vaulters) give up.....

too many odds against you/us...

if you are not given the opportunity to fix your technique or your run... you might as well quit now before you spend the time for nothing...

but before i did quit i would try and find out how Tim Mack, Nick Hysong and Laurence Johnson made it... and how many hours the worlds vaulters train to get where they are getting.

i don't believe it is lack of opportunity it's the seemingly unwillingness we have to fix the run.. to fix the physics... you are not going to win Daytona with a six cylinder engine!!!

dj

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Re: Worst indoor season ever ?

Unread postby VTechVaulter » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:01 pm

brad walker jumped 6.00m in Jockgrim from 16 steps. hes the only one so far as i know.
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