Staying behind the pole.

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J.lay
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Staying behind the pole.

Unread postby J.lay » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:48 am

Hey guys, I just wanted to see all of y'alls ideas for this. I have been working out and vaulting for most of indoor and I am seeing a lot of improvement, but my biggest problem is slipping under the pole. I always lean back and pull on the pull to get upside down and don't know how to fix it. My coaches have been trying to help but I just can't seem to get it, I keep my right hand pressure and don't collapse my left hand until I am going upside down. I am For whatever reason, I think it is because I am rushing to get upside down, I slide way under and don't get the full hoop. My swing completes to the I when I am at like a 45 degree angle, practically on top of the pole when I need to be back and pushing through. Any ideas on how I can fix this, or advice?

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KirkB
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Re: Staying behind the pole.

Unread postby KirkB » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:30 pm

J.lay wrote: I keep my right hand pressure and don't collapse my left hand until I am going upside down.

There's your problem.

You shouldn't worry about "staying behind the pole". Instead, you should focus on good (forwards-leaning) body posture on takeoff. And that will be impossible to do if you're taking off under.

Are you thinking that you need to keep hand pressure on your bottom arm? Why do you think that? Are you thinking that this will cause the pole to bend?

You need to realise that the pole will bend - on its own - as long as you have a tall plant, and jump into (forwards-leaning) the pole on takeoff. Bottom arm pressure isn't needed. In fact, it leads to exactly what you're experiencing - a 3/4 swing instead of a full swing. Bottom arm pressure kills your swing.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

J.lay
PV Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 9:29 am
Expertise: Current High School Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 14
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: Lazaro Borges
Location: Mooresville, North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Staying behind the pole.

Unread postby J.lay » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:28 pm

Thanks Kirk! I have had a problem with collapsing that left arm and my coaches have been saying to keep it outwards, and when I watched clips of pros and elites, none of them have that arm collapsed, so I assumed I needed to keep it out.

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KirkB
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Posts: 3550
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:05 pm
Expertise: Former College Vaulter; Former Elite Vaulter; Former Coach; Fan
Lifetime Best: 5.34
Favorite Vaulter: Thiago da Silva
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: Staying behind the pole.

Unread postby KirkB » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:58 pm

J.lay wrote:I have had a problem with collapsing that left arm and my coaches have been saying to keep it outwards, and when I watched clips of pros and elites, none of them have that arm collapsed, so I assumed I needed to keep it out.

It's a common mistake made by many vaulters and coaches.

It's even more confusing because when you watch vids of elite vaulters, you see them holding onto the pole with their bottom arm (of course), but you can't really tell whether they're just hanging onto the pole, or whether they're pushing it. It's better to talk to coaches and vaulters about this, than to try to interpret what you're seeing in a vid.

Personally, I pushed with my bottom arm in HS because I had read that John Pennel used that technique. However, I didn't understand the bad side of doing that. When I got to U. Washington, that's the first thing that my coach (Ken Shannon) changed in my technique. At first, I argued with him by saying that I *have* to push the pole, or it won't bend. But after doing a few of his drills for a few weeks, I gained confidence that the pole *does* bend just by the force of the *top* hand and your forwards momentum. I learned that the bottom arm is only needed for balance.

There's been a few debates on PVP about this over the past 10 years, and I must say (in all fairness) that some very good coaches still advocate pushing with the bottom arm, and some elite athletes are still successful with this technique.

However, if you're following the Petrov Model (free takeoff; Bubka-like technique), then there's no doubt that there's no intentional pushing with the bottom arm.

J.lay wrote: ... when I watched clips of pros and elites, none of them have that arm collapsed ...

You have to be careful how you interpret what you're seeing in vids.

I think that what you're referring to is that the elites have a lot of "space" between their bottom arm and the pole. So the question is: How do they create that space? And a related question is: What is their body posture?

The answer to the Q about body posture is usually that they have good forwards lean. They are *not* taking off under, and they are therefore *not* getting jerked off the ground when the pole hits the box. This technique is bad, and will cause you to be leaning backwards after takeoff - rather than forwards. And that's what causes your bottom arm to collapse.

Notice that I didn't say that your bottom arm collapses because you didn't hold it still (and push on the pole with it). Rather, it collapses because of an under takeoff, and poor body posture on takeoff.

So now that you understand a bit better re the mechanics of *why* the bottom arm appears to collapse after takeoff, you know what to watch for, and how to fix it. Hint: You don't fix it by applying pressure with the bottom arm!

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!


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